More on Roberts and Chicago

[Mike B]

Got it, Mike. I think Dave went over the edge there for a minute.

Dave is very knowlegeable but when it comes to the Cubs he is like we are with the Orioles. Biased. That is fine but the dislike of AM by the Cub fans is obvious. If winning championships is the ultimate and IMO it is then AM is far more accomplished than Hendry and the great Billy Beane who IMO is the most over rated GM in the game.

[weemnj]

I've heard the term "spare parts" used to describe Cub prospects twice now in recent posts.

I'd remind folks that some of those very same "spare parts" brought back Rich Harden AND a second quality ML pitcher (Chad Gaudin).

If you don't like the market for Roberts and think it's too soft, then keep him. But the market is what it is (and it's not going to be any better a year later).

So kindly quit perpetuating this charade that the offers coming Baltimore's way are/were oh-so insulting. Another, more accomplished GM obviously disagreed.

Stotle just absolutely slammed you out of the park!-----He crushed you with REALITY.

[davearm]

Dave is very knowlegeable but when it comes to the Cubs he is like we are with the Orioles. Biased. That is fine but the dislike of AM by the Cub fans is obvious. If winning championships is the ultimate and IMO it is then AM is far more accomplished than Hendry and the great Billy Beane who IMO is the most over rated GM in the game.

The proper measuring stick is playoff appearances: how consistently do you put a team on the field that can legitimately contend for a championship.

If nothing else, history teaches us that anything can happen in October -- but you've gotta be in it to win it.

John Schuerholz is probably the greatest GM of our time, and his resume of 14 straight division crowns is unrivaled. Despite that, his Braves one just one WS.

Quick show of hands of folks that think MacPhail (2 WS) > Schuerholz (1 WS).

Yeah, didn't think so.

And by this measure Beane is nothing short of outstanding as well, and even moreso when the budgetary constraints he faced are factored in.

[jamesenoch]

The proper measuring stick is playoff appearances: how consistently do you put a team on the field that can legitimately contend for a championship.

If nothing else, history teaches us that anything can happen in October -- but you've gotta be in it to win it.

John Schuerholz is probably the greatest GM of our time, and his resume of 14 straight division crowns is unrivaled. Despite that, his Braves one just one WS.

Quick show of hands of folks that think MacPhail (2 WS) > Schuerholz (1 WS).

Yeah, didn't think so.

And by this measure Beane is nothing short of outstanding as well, and even moreso when the budgetary constraints he faced are factored in.

You are obviously a very smart and intelligent fan, and your logic in this post is very sound, however, it is my opinion that the immaturity in the bolded part was not needed. Take it out, and your post proves a point. Having it there, well, is a distraction from the argument.

Again, just my humble opinion.

[davearm]

In hopes of refocusing this discussion at least a little bit, what I've heard emerged from the Cubs' organizational meetings:

1) Re-signing both Dempster and Wood is a priority.

2) Jeremy Hermida will be a prime target and the Cubs will be a serious player if the Marlins decide to deal him. As one might imagine this would create a CF platoon with Fuku and Johnson.

3) Hendry will check in on Roberts but the feeling is that the O's feel keeping Roberts will be critical to their pursuit of Teixeira.

[LookinUp]

Hear, Hear!

I seriously doubt that Hendry will contact Andy in any serious way. I think that boat has sailed.

I know, that puts me at odds with the Chicago papers that are usually right on top of...I mean knowledgeable about....well let's just say well versed in the team's philosophical...actually, they have no clue concerning Cub moves, which means they'd should probably post here as insiders.

Now I'm sure that Jim will be polite and thoughtful if MacPhail comes calling, but I doubt that Roberts is really that high of a priority. RISP is more of a concern than a leadoff hitter for this team.

Jim has now had first had dealings with the same Andy that he worked with in Chicago. Someone that is less interested in a fair outcome for both teams then a man that has to be so overwhelmed with a deal in his favor (to cover his own backside) that it's probably MacPhail, from here on out (as far as Jim is concerned, anyway) that’ll have to come up with a package that works.

To be truthful, I believe it'll be dark days indeed for the posters on this board if they really believe they'll get anymore hauls like they did during last year's winter meetings.

I think the Oriole fans are going to find out what a pariah the owner and GM. of this team will be, as far as trades are concerned, anyway.

The hope was that MacPhail could bring some sanity to an ownership that ran this franchise into the ground.

Last year proved that MacPhail is only going to exacerbate the problem.

I sincerely doubt that the O's will have much success pulling off any trades of consequence as the trading deadline was a precursor of.

Me thinks MacPhail will go hat in hand to from here on out as most organizations will turn a deaf ear to him.

The dog and pony show that the O's front office put on last year, I believe, has made most teams unwilling to deal with them in anything more than a cursory way. Not much happened for them at the deadline for good reason.

Sadly this may well become the norm for this organization from here on out, as few teams will not want to deal with the Sybil-like (now) two-headed monster of the present G.M and owner.

I fear it'll be at least 10 more years of wandering in the wilderness for the O's as an organization with ownership and front office as presently constructed.

I don't believe many on this board really understand the animosity that MacPhail garnered during last years winter meetings.

Many of you won't want to hear this, but this organization is very similar looking to the Oakland Raiders on how they're run. Hangout posters are too close to the situation to see it, though.

If you never post here again I'll be happy. If you do, I'll be paying attention. You remind me of a poster that got kicked off this board last year. I'll be interested to see what else you have to say.

[ChaosLex]

If you never post here again I'll be happy. If you do, I'll be paying attention. You remind me of a poster that got kicked off this board last year. I'll be interested to see what else you have to say.

Pssst! He was released last night.

[wildcard]

In hopes of refocusing this discussion at least a little bit, what I've heard emerged from the Cubs' organizational meetings:

1) Re-signing both Dempster and Wood is a priority.

2) Jeremy Hermida will be a prime target and the Cubs will be a serious player if the Marlins decide to deal him. As one might imagine this would create a CF platoon with Fuku and Johnson.

3) Hendry will check in on Roberts but the feeling is that the O's feel keeping Roberts will be critical to their pursuit of Teixeira.

Interesting Dave. Three comments.

1. Tex will probably be signed by the first of the year and if the O's don't get him (which is likely) then that changes thought #3.

2. IMO the O's need pitching much more then hitting and therefore Burnett is the key to whether Roberts and Huff are resigned or traded. But that is just my opinion.

3. With what has been said about the Cubs need to balance their lineup, I will be surprised if they don't try to get to 3 lefties in their lineup one way or another. I don't know that Roberts will be involved but he may be considered.

[wildcard]

The proper measuring stick is playoff appearances: how consistently do you put a team on the field that can legitimately contend for a championship.

If nothing else, history teaches us that anything can happen in October -- but you've gotta be in it to win it.

John Schuerholz is probably the greatest GM of our time, and his resume of 14 straight division crowns is unrivaled. Despite that, his Braves one just one WS.

Quick show of hands of folks that think MacPhail (2 WS) > Schuerholz (1 WS).

Yeah, didn't think so.

And by this measure Beane is nothing short of outstanding as well, and even moreso when the budgetary constraints he faced are factored in.

Neither Schuerholz nor Beane would have achieved what they have in the AL East. Circumstances have a lot to do with how much a GM can achieve.

Winning the World Series is still what every team tries to do and when it is accomplished it is the ultimate achievement.

The O's won the Series in 1966, 1970, and 1983. The 1969 team was thought to be better then any of them but came up lacking because they lost the Series. And boy, did that hurt.

MacPhail's achievement of winning two World Series with mostly different personnel in a small market is quite an accomplishment and one the Beane can only dream of.

Atlanta is not and should not be a small market team. It has the whole south to draw from. Along with the winning of 14 division titles, not being able to win the big games is a legacy that Schuerholz carries with him and noone is more aware of it then him according to his book.

[Mike B]

The proper measuring stick is playoff appearances: how consistently do you put a team on the field that can legitimately contend for a championship.

If nothing else, history teaches us that anything can happen in October -- but you've gotta be in it to win it.

John Schuerholz is probably the greatest GM of our time, and his resume of 14 straight division crowns is unrivaled. Despite that, his Braves one just one WS.

Quick show of hands of folks that think MacPhail (2 WS) > Schuerholz (1 WS).

Yeah, didn't think so

And by this measure Beane is nothing short of outstanding as well, and even moreso when the budgetary constraints he faced are factored in.

I do not aagree but that is not much of a surprise. No one who knows anything about baseball would say Shuerholz, by the way a BMore guy, is not aa better GM than AM or most anyone else. Interesting that you do not adress AM's championships but somehow bring Schuerholz into the argument. As for Beane, I stand by my comment that he is over rated. I think time will tell the trade he made with your Cubs was a bad one and while he does have some budget constraints it is my view that some of the deals

are just for the sake of making deals. Didn't AM face some of the same budget constraints that Beane faces when he was in Minnesota??

[Mike B]

In hopes of refocusing this discussion at least a little bit, what I've heard emerged from the Cubs' organizational meetings:

1) Re-signing both Dempster and Wood is a priority.

2) Jeremy Hermida will be a prime target and the Cubs will be a serious player if the Marlins decide to deal him. As one might imagine this would create a CF platoon with Fuku and Johnson.

3) Hendry will check in on Roberts but the feeling is that the O's feel keeping Roberts will be critical to their pursuit of Teixeira.

Thanks for the info. I really believe the ship has sailed for both the Orioles and Cubs on BRob. Let them focus their collective energies elsewhere. Hermedia will be dealt and I think you could see a ton of teams in on him. I believe the CUbs will need to start with Vitters if they want Hermedia.

As for Wood, I think he owes te Cubs some loyalty but based on Loewen, loyalty very rarely comes to play in baseball.

[Mike B]

Neither Schuerholz nor Beane would have achieved what they have in the AL East. Circumstances have a lot to do with how much a GM can achieved.

Winning the World Series is still what every team tries to do and when it is accomplished it is the ultimate achievement.

The O's won the Series in 1966, 1970, and 1983. The 1969 team was thought to be better then any of them but came up lacking because they lost the Series. And boy, did that hurt.

MacPhail's achievement of winning two World Series with mostly different personnel in a small market is quite an accomplishment and one the Beane can only dream of.

Atlanta is not and should not be a small market team. It has the whole south to draw from. Along with the winning of 14 division titles, not being able to win the big games is a legacy that Schuerholz carries with him and noone is more aware of it then him according to his book.

Excellent post. Great point about the AL East. I am a big Schuerholz fan but he would not have won 14 consecutive titles in the AL East.

[Cubsfan]

Dave is very knowlegeable but when it comes to the Cubs he is like we are with the Orioles. Biased. That is fine but the dislike of AM by the Cub fans is obvious. If winning championships is the ultimate and IMO it is then AM is far more accomplished than Hendry and the great Billy Beane who IMO is the most over rated GM in the game.

I don't think most Cub fans dislike AM. I think most fans realize the type of GM he is and accept it at that.

[Cubsfan]

Excellent post. Great point about the AL East. I am a big Schuerholz fan but he would not have won 14 consecutive titles in the AL East.

I'm not saying Schuerholz would have won 14 consecutive titles in the AL East, but it's impossible to predict what a person would have done (or be able to do) in a completely different situation. Are you talking about the Braves being in the AL East or Schuerholz being GM of a team in the AL East? Put him in charge of a team like the Yankees or Red Sox and he might have a dynasty.

[Greg Pappas]

'davearm'... Let's play GM's a moment here.

You made me aware that you are interested in Luke Scott, and have asked what it would take to get him.

My response would be that I'd want Sean Marshall, Mitch Atkins, and Ronny Cedeno. Deal?