The second guessing Hyde thread.

[SteveA]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

How does everyone feel about Hyde leaving Bautista in there for the 9th with a four run lead? I hope he is still available tonight if it's close. He tied his high with six outs and threw 25 pitches (high of 27). He did pitch back to back on 5/23 after throwing 24 pitches in a 1 inning appearance on 5/22. I'm guessing he will be available today in which case I am on board but I think I would have preferred Krehbiel come in that spot. 

OK so you bring in Krehbiel the day after he went 1.1 innings and 18 pitches Monday.   It's not unprecedented, he's pitched back to back days 5 times this year, but 4 times he threw 14 or fewer pitches the game before, and in all 5 times he only pitched in one inning the previous game.   He never came back a second day after warming up and pitching in more than one inning the previous day.

But OK, you do that.   And suppose it's just one of those nights.   He's wild, can't find the plate, walks a guy, hits a guy, gives up a bloop hit and suddenly the game is on the line.   Who do you go to then?   Cano?   Hall?   Reed?   Akin on one day rest after having his high pitch count for the entire season?

That's the problem.  You bring in Krehbiel and if things go wrong you have no legitimate alternative.

Your proposal is to bring Krehbiel back in a situation he really hasn't been in before, coming on back to back days after pitching in two separate innings the previous day.   To make sure Bautista is available tonight.

I say use Bautista there to lock down the save situation you KNOW you have.   Now, if it's a save situation tonight, maybe bring Bautista back in a situation he really hasn't been in before (going back to back after 2IP/24P... he has come in once after pitching more than 1 inning, and his high pitch count the first day to come back the next was 17).

We might not need him, but if we are going to take a chance and bring someone back sooner than normal, I'd rather do it with Bautista tonight IF we need him.   If he's 10% less effective because of the short rest he's still probably our best reliever.

[NCRaven]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

We might not need him, but if we are going to take a chance and bring someone back sooner than normal, I'd rather do it with Bautista tonight IF we need him.   If he's 10% less effective because of the short rest he's still probably our best reliever.

Agreed.  And he seems to be the most physically capable reliever in our pen for using in such a manner.  Not to mention, Thursday is an off day, as well.

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I say use Bautista there to lock down the save situation you KNOW you have....

We might not need him, but if we are going to take a chance and bring someone back sooner than normal, I'd rather do it with Bautista tonight IF we need him.   If he's 10% less effective because of the short rest he's still probably our best reliever.

Good points. I also didn't know when I asked the question that we had Wells available for today. That changes my answer as well. 

[LA2]

2 hours ago, orioles22 said:

I said on the game thread I'd be tempted to put him in right field in case we got into trouble but save the pitches if we didn't need him.

 

Capt. Obvious here, but "And what if something is hit out to RF?"

[orioles22]

2 hours ago, LA2 said:

Capt. Obvious here, but "And what if something is hit out to RF?"

If Mullins can't get to it, I hope he catches it. I think you play the odds there and figure there probably won't be more than one ball hit there in the inning and you have some leeway with a decent lead.

[LA2]

1 minute ago, orioles22 said:

If Mullins can't get to it, I hope he catches it. I think you play the odds there and figure there probably won't be more than one ball hit there in the inning and you have some leeway with a decent lead.

I see, but there is that old saying that the ball always finds the weak link.

[sportsfan8703]

What could he have done?  Pulled Lyles an inning before?  Well the pen still let up runs and we only scored 3. 
 

I guess he could’ve gotten himself tossed after Toronto got a bunch of borderline strike calls. 
 

You can’t blame him for that one. 

[dtk9119]

37 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What could he have done?  Pulled Lyles an inning before?  Well the pen still let up runs and we only scored 3. 
 

I guess he could’ve gotten himself tossed after Toronto got a bunch of borderline strike calls. 
 

You can’t blame him for that one. 

I don't blame him for this one. Lyles only gave up 4 runs which is pretty avg for him. If our offense had a pulse 4 runs would have been nothing and Krehbel probably doesn't give up the other 2 because these guys are under enormous pressure to hold the line bc the offense stinks

[sportsfan8703]

Been thinking about this… Hyde should’ve gotten tossed last night. Game One of the series, the Jays were getting a lot of calls at home, Hyde could’ve set the tone that we’re not just the young nice guys anymore. 
 

For years Hyde has been the “father figure” type manager, now we him to turn it up a notch. I like the dude and he’s the MOY. We just needed a spark last night and to set the tone that we’re not just going to take the Blue Jays crap anymore. 

[now]

I guess you could say Hyde took one out of three in TO. Still wondering about leaving Lyles in too long, yanking Bradish too soon, and who was responsible for that Mullins-Rutschman failed double steal with Santander up? All is forgiven I guess with genius pinch-hitting and pushing some right bullpen buttons. 

[sportsfan8703]

What’s his fascination with trying to build Well’s pitch count?  He’s got three more starts left. He should’ve been pulled after 4 yesterday and Tate should’ve been brought in. Instead he had nobody warming to start the inning. 
 

We didn’t score so it doesn’t matter, but these are the things to look for going forward. 

[Frobby]

Terrible job by Hyde tonight IMO.  I know the bullpen is on fumes, but you could tell Bradish had nothing.  In my opinion, Hyde risked injury to Bradish letting him throw 84 pitches to get 7 outs.  

Then, he gets 2 pretty good innings out of Hall, who after all is a starting pitcher, and takes him out after 34 pitches, forcing himself to use more of his other relievers before he had to.  

Just horrible.

 

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Terrible job by Hyde tonight IMO.  I know the bullpen is on fumes, but you could tell Bradish had nothing.  In my opinion, Hyde risked injury to Bradish letting him throw 84 pitches to get 7 outs.  

Then, he gets 2 pretty good innings out of Hall, who after all is a starting pitcher, and takes him out after 34 pitches, forcing himself to use more of his other relievers before he had to.  

Just horrible.

 

He had 7 relievers available tonight. No more off days. 
 

With who and when does he go to the pen? 

[jdwilde1]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Terrible job by Hyde tonight IMO.  I know the bullpen is on fumes, but you could tell Bradish had nothing.  In my opinion, Hyde risked injury to Bradish letting him throw 84 pitches to get 7 outs.  

Then, he gets 2 pretty good innings out of Hall, who after all is a starting pitcher, and takes him out after 34 pitches, forcing himself to use more of his other relievers before he had to.  

Just horrible.

 

I usually try to avoid second guessing managers, but I absolutely agree  with your take. I also question Hyde’s refusal to allow Stowers to face LHP when he has absolutely crushed LHP over the last two years in the minors. And then there is the irony of Odor’s  two botched double play balls since his ability to turn the double play was (allegedly) the reason Hyde continued to put him in the lineup.

[eddie83]

Hyde just said postgame he threw 3 guys he didn’t want to tonight.