May 12: The Dark Knight returns to Gotham City (early day game)

[Philip]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The entire team sucks today. How anyone can blame Hyde for this debacle is beyond me. We have scored ZERO runs. Harvey crapped the bed in his return. This team is not very good defensively. Add it up, and you have a very bad team that is playing a very bad game. 

I’m not disagreeing, but today is another example of Hyde leaving the starter in too long.

the starter obviously is struggling, and yet Hyde leaves the starter in to create a mess before he leaves for the next guy to try to clean up.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Philip

[KillerTofu]

Harvey will be DFA’d by the All-Star break. He’s a lost cause. 

[Moose Milligan]

Lol Keegan Akin.

C'mon you pudgy faced applejohn!  

[Tony-OH]

I'm not going to lie. I think I need a break from seeing Mountcastle in the lineup. I believe in his bat ultimately, but his struggles this year is one the biggest frustrations for me as an Orioles fan. All I wanted was a young player to make me think the future is bright, instead he comes in this year as a hackomatic and looks nothing like the guy we saw last year who would actually take some pitches occasionally. 

He hits way too many ground balls. Has he hit some balls hard? Sure. Is he OPSing sub .600 on May 12th? Yep. 

Just once, just freaking once I'd love to see a young Orioles prospect come up and dominate from the start and then keep on playing well. His K-BB ratio has become a concern once again and honestly, I'm frustrated with him.

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m not disagreeing, but today is another example of Hyde leaving the starter in too long.

the starter obviously is struggling, and yet Hyde leaves the starter in to create a mess before he leaves for the next guy to try to clean up.

 

It's not. Its pretty clear the Orioles suck today. Why burn through his bullpen because Harvey crapped the bed? Make his butt go out there and eat some innings. I could care less about his ERA. He needs to do his job and get some hitters out.

[Philip]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's not. Its pretty clear the Orioles suck today. Why burn through his bullpen because Harvey crapped the bed? Make his butt go out there and eat some innings. I could care less about his ERA. He needs to do his job and get some hitters out.

In that case why pull him at all? Why bring in Armstrong? He only threw about ~70 pitches, he was good for some more. If you want him to do his job and get hitters out and save the pen, then leave him in for the rest of the inning. Hyde obviously didn’t think Harvey was suddenly going to become good. He just left him in too long again.

I appreciate your argument, but leaving him in for two additional batters doesn’t accomplish any length goal, it just makes a mess.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Philip

[spiritof66]

6 minutes ago, Philip said:

I think he’s here because he’s a warm body and there’s no one beating down the door yet. I wonder if he’d be claimed if he were designated, but I also wonder who’d replace him, since Lowther appears to be in the doghouse.

If you're a real bad team that's serious about rebuilding, it seems to me the GM should look at guys like Armstrong, Ruiz and Severino --  players who've been around MLB long enough to establish a likely level of performance -- and decide whether playing them serves any purpose (other than saving money). 

If not, the GM should be working to replace that player by promoting a AAA player who's a longshot to succeed, or trading to acquire similar players. You're not likely to improve the team, but at least you'd be trying. And by trying rather than just standing pat, you might come up with a Mike Yazstremski and improve the team.

Maybe more important, by just running the same old crappy guys out there, you tell your fans that you don't really care. And if you don't, why should they?

[Dreadnought]

7 minutes ago, Philip said:

In that case why pull him at all? Why bring in Armstrong? He only threw about ~70 pitches, he was good for some more. If you want him to do his job and get hitters out and save the pen, then leave him in for the rest of the inning. Hyde obviously didn’t think Harvey was suddenly going to become good. He just left him in too long again.

I appreciate your argument, but leaving him in for two additional batters doesn’t accomplish any length goal, it just makes a mess.

If Armstrong is going to be on the roster, you use him in games where you are way behind and/or have little chance of winning to see if he can pitch his way out of struggles.  Textbook example today.

If you listen carefully, you hear managers talk about low leverage and high leverage situations.  Today was a low leverage situation.

Also, if you are paying attention, all MLB teams have groups of relievers they use in close games or when they are ahead(Group A) and another group they use when they are behind and/or in danger of being blown out(Group B).   If they use the pitchers from Group A in the situations typically belonging to Group B,  several of the Group A pitchers would not be available the next day or two in a winnable situation.   This is standard stuff.  The Group A can't be used in every game.

Full slate of minor league games tonight to look forward to.   

Edited May 12, 2021 by Dreadnought

[Philip]

10 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

If you're a real bad team that's serious about rebuilding, it seems to me the GM should look at guys like Armstrong, Ruiz and Severino --  players who've been around MLB long enough to establish a likely level of performance -- and decide whether playing them serves any purpose (other than saving money). 

If not, the GM should be working to replace that player by promoting a AAA player who's a longshot to succeed, or trading to acquire similar players. You're not likely to improve the team, but at least you'd be trying. And by trying rather than just standing pat, you might come up with a Mike Yazstremski and improve the team.

Maybe more important, by just running the same old crappy guys out there, you tell your fans that you don't really care. And if you don't, why should they?

All of the guys you mentioned have been here long enough to have established their own level. They may get slightly better or slightly worse, but their level is where they are. I’m disappointed in Armstrong, I hoped he would be a little bit more, But none of them should be on even a mid- tier team. 

[SteveA]

I was going to say that down 6, after the 4-ball walk to Mullins by the new P, Austin should not swing until a strike gets thrown and called.

But after one ball he swung and got a single.   So I guess I can't complain.

[SteveA]

16 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

If you're a real bad team that's serious about rebuilding, it seems to me the GM should look at guys like Armstrong, Ruiz and Severino --  players who've been around MLB long enough to establish a likely level of performance -- and decide whether playing them serves any purpose (other than saving money). 

If not, the GM should be working to replace that player by promoting a AAA player who's a longshot to succeed, or trading to acquire similar players. You're not likely to improve the team, but at least you'd be trying. And by trying rather than just standing pat, you might come up with a Mike Yazstremski and improve the team.

Maybe more important, by just running the same old crappy guys out there, you tell your fans that you don't really care. And if you don't, why should they?

1) We have fewer and fewer of these same old crappy guys each year.   We are debuting rookies each of the past 3 seasons under Elias.   

2) Look at almost any major league bullpen and the #9 and #10 guy is probably not very good.   Even on some contenders.

[spiritof66]

16 minutes ago, SteveA said:

1) We have fewer and fewer of these same old crappy guys each year.   We are debuting rookies each of the past 3 seasons under Elias.   

2) Look at almost any major league bullpen and the #9 and #10 guy is probably not very good.   Even on some contenders.

Why do we have any of those guys playing? What's the rationale for having Rio Ruiz on the team? Wouldn't you rather see someone else, even if he turns out to be no better?

[Philip]

48 minutes ago, Dreadnought said:

If Armstrong is going to be on the roster, you use him in games where you are way behind and/or have little chance of winning to see if he can pitch his way out of struggles.  Textbook example today.

If you listen carefully, you hear managers talk about low leverage and high leverage situations.  Today was a low leverage situation.

Also, if you are paying attention, all MLB teams have groups of relievers they use in close games or when they are ahead(Group A) and another group they use when they are behind and/or in danger of being blown out(Group B).   If they use the pitchers from Group A in the situations typically belonging to Group B,  several of the Group A pitchers would not be available the next day or two in a winnable situation.   This is standard stuff.  The Group A can't be used in every game.

Full slate of minor league games tonight to look forward to.   

You weren’t getting my point, which is that Hyde left Harvey in too long, Or my larger point which is that Hyde almost always leaves his starters in too long.

I don’t care that Hyde brought in Armstrong, I don’t care who he brought in. My point is that He waited too long to do so.

Tony said that Hyde waited because Harvey’s job is to burn innings and save the bullpen on a day when it was obvious the Orioles did not show up to play.  But that argument is refuted by the fact that Harvey only faced two or three additional batters, and left with two men on and one out.

That doesn’t save the bullpen at all, it just makes a mess for the next guy to clean up, and in this case he did not.

[Beysbol]

Elias wants another first rounder and this Orioles team will finish dead last in the majors at the end of the year. You think Detroit is bad? You have seen what this awful team is capable of. More losing. I wonder if Elias is literally telling Hyde to leave these bums in. What a joke. 

[WillyM]

If somebody had told me, before this two-game series started, that the Orioles would take a two-run lead into the bottom of the eighth inning in the first game and two of the eight starting position players for the Mets would have been injured and out for the rest of the series, I would have felt pretty good about the Orioles' chances of taking that first game and very possibly the second.

Of course, what they wouldn't have told me was that Peraza and Smith, the two second-stringers who replaced the injured players, were going to go 7-for-11 with 5 runs batted in over the course of the two games.

The Mets' pitching had a lot to do with it, too, but sometimes the guys who really hurt you are the ones you least expect.