Connolly: Trade Deadline thoughts

[Roll Tide]

47 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What would be a reasonable return for Means in this market?

Duquette: I would look at the Blake Snell deal from last year that Tampa did (with San Diego). And I would say that would be something pretty darn close. Snell is a top-of-rotation guy. He doesn’t pitch as deep into the game as Means, but he also has a Cy Young under his belt. So, he has some aspects that are better than Means and has another year or two in the game. But that would be the level you’d be looking for. The Padres traded some pretty good players; Luis Patiño is a tremendous talent.

Evans: The Orioles will look at their timeline in terms of when they feel like they’re ready to make a run for the division or a playoff spot, which conceivably could be sooner than later; only they know what their plans are. But you’re going to start to get hungry for guys that are ready now and not as much for guys that are further away. So, if you’re getting a return that is going to help you in the near term, and not just in the long term, your quality of return is going to have a variance. And you probably still want another guy that’s further away to really sweeten the deal.

O’Dowd: Another young, impactful starting pitcher that is just not there yet. Listen, if somebody wants to offer you another organization’s (Grayson) Rodriguez or (D.L.) Hall, well then, yeah, damn, you’ve got to listen to that. Historically, if you look at the trading deadline, those guys don’t get traded then. Like the Orioles would never trade those guys. So, I can’t imagine another club doing that, but you would certainly have to listen on John if the right kind of deal is there.

Bowden: I’d have to get multiple starting players. I’d need to get a young starter back with the same upside as Means and I need to get one or two more everyday players that I can plug in to help me win. I have to win the trade or I’m not trading him. Not even close.

A blockbuster with Seattle?

 

Mariners Means & Mullins

 

Orioles Kelenic, Hancock, Marte, Williamson, and 2 non top 30 types.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, Philip said:

The Pirates traded three players for Archer. Archer wasn’t very good with the Pirates and even if it had been one for one, the Rays would have won handily.

But unless Means comes back from the IL quick clean and completely, no team will give up a meaningful ready-now starter. The Pirates should have just plugged Glasnow into their own rotation.

Well yes, Means has to come back and show he is back but that doesn’t take much to do that.  He should get in 2 or 3 starts before the deadline.

[Camden_yardbird]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

The Pirates traded three players for Archer. Archer wasn’t very good with the Pirates and even if it had been one for one, the Rays would have won handily.

But unless Means comes back from the IL quick clean and completely, no team will give up a meaningful ready-now starter. The Pirates should have just plugged Glasnow into their own rotation.

Horrible trade for the pirates obviously but I follow them. At the time of the trade Glasnow had been in their rotation, and walked more guys than humanly possible.  He had no control and wasn't going to add anything.

Meadows at the time was basically Austin Hays, promise but continually injured.  Whether he was going to make it long term was a real question.

I suspect the Pirates were not a team that was using advanced technology grip substances.  Glasnow left and got more control, then got injured when he couldn't use grip stuff.  Cole left, went to the astros who we know were using that stuff, spin rate skyrocketed.  Musgrove left and got better. 

It wasn't as easy as just putting Glasnow in that trade.  That said, that trade wrecked the franchise for the next five years.

[Philip]

42 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well yes, Means has to come back and show he is back but that doesn’t take much to do that.  He should get in 2 or 3 starts before the deadline.

Yes, but remember that Means has an injury history, it’s not just this season.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

[Philip]

Doubled comment

[Ripken]

I like Means the pitcher and person a lot.  Great story.  That said, I'm concerned about the reoccurring shoulder soreness and concerned about the changeup movement without the sticky stuff.  For the right deal, I'd surely move him.  Get a promising arm in return and buy a couple starters for '22 or '23.  I think Mullins is for real so I'd have to be overwhelmed by an offer but everyone is tradeable.  

[spiritof66]

I'm not sure the Blake Snell comparison is going to get teams to dig deep in a trade for Means. Snell has a 5.29 ERA and 1.55 WHIP this season, with just 66 innings pitched in 15 starts, for an rWAR of -.3.  

[Bahama O's Fan]

4 hours ago, Ripken said:

I like Means the pitcher and person a lot.  Great story.  That said, I'm concerned about the reoccurring shoulder soreness and concerned about the changeup movement without the sticky stuff.  For the right deal, I'd surely move him.  Get a promising arm in return and buy a couple starters for '22 or '23.  I think Mullins is for real so I'd have to be overwhelmed by an offer but everyone is tradeable.  

Yeah, I just think Means does not have continued long term success. I like him, but if you get a Bedard type deal or similar, I'm trading him

[wildcard]

Means is a big part of the rebuild.  90% chance he stays and teams up with Grayson, DL and T Wells next season in the O's rotation.

[OriolesMagic83]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Means is a big part of the rebuild.  90% chance he stays and teams up with Grayson, DL and T Wells next season in the O's rotation.

I want to extend Means, most of the Hangout wants to trade him.  Even if the O's extend him, that doesn't mean he can't be traded at some point.  Archer's extension just increased his trade value. 

[Go_Os]

When I read Bowden's comments I understand better why he was a lousy GM.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, Go_Os said:

When I read Bowden's comments I understand better why he was a lousy GM.

There some posters on OH I’d sooner trust to run a MLB team over Bowden. 

[7Mo]

11 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I want to extend Means, most of the Hangout wants to trade him.  Even if the O's extend him, that doesn't mean he can't be traded at some point.  Archer's extension just increased his trade value. 

Exactly right. But we don't know what kind of terms Means would or wouldn't accept in an extension. 

And there's no reason Elias can't be working both ideas simultaneously. I'm sure Means is available....but with a huge price tag. And Elias has a pretty good idea what extension dollar figure would make him more valuable going forward. 

[drjohnnyfeva]

On 7/3/2021 at 9:27 AM, Sports Guy said:

What would be a reasonable return for Means in this market?

Evans: The Orioles will look at their timeline in terms of when they feel like they’re ready to make a run for the division or a playoff spot, which conceivably could be sooner than later; only they know what their plans are.

 

On 7/3/2021 at 9:27 AM, Sports Guy said:

Would you trade Means if you were the Orioles or a team in their position?

Evans: I think it’s very difficult to trade a cornerstone piece of a staff. Pitching is very hard to come by. There’s never enough starting pitching on the market. And this is a very fair market price (contractually) for him for the next several years. And you’ve got a chance to potentially retain him with an extension at some point. So, it doesn’t really make sense given the timeline that you’re probably working with in Baltimore. So, for me, it would be very difficult.

I think I'm pretty much in line with what Evans is saying on this...  If any of these trades occur, it's an indicator that the FO still feels that we are rebuilding.  I would put Means and Mullins in this same category.  If one or both of those guys gets traded we are still rebuilding.  I don't feel that way about Mancini.  Mancini could be traded and I don't think it indicates much unless they acquire a decent catcher.  For me, that starts to signal that the center of the field is beginning to solidify (I forget which guy stated that, but I think Evans, again.)

I'm still not against any of these moves.  But I find it interesting that the guys being quoted in the article are in agreement NOT to trade Means or Mullins unless there is some blockbuster deal.  Dealing these guys would be a demonstration that we really do stink as much as we seem to from watching.