Valaika and Jahmai Jones

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't disagree. However, one thing people are overlooking with Jones is that his hitting record is mixed. He was a .650-.750 minor league hitter before this. If his defense also is not great, I have no problem letting him wait to make sure the hitting is for real as well as improving his D. 

Who cares?  
 

This mindset makes little sense.  
 

This is a simple equation.  Who has a chance to be part of the future?

The answer is clearly Jones.  He can still learn to hit and develop his defensive game at this level. Not to mention he is performing well now, so maybe he made adjustments. 

People around here like the guy has to be perfect before being called up.  It’s just such a wrong way to look at things.

Chances are, Jones won’t be anything at the Ml level outside of a bench player, at best.  But so what?  For right now, he represents an option that we should be seeing.

[Big Mac]

It is hard to take the second base defense reasoning for not calling him up seriously when they keep playing him in left field at Norfolk. 

[7Mo]

9 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

It is hard to take the second base defense reasoning for not calling him up seriously when they keep playing him in left field at Norfolk. 

1 game in LF out of the last 14?

[Big Mac]

25 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

1 game in LF out of the last 14?

Seemed like he had been playing there more to me, but that was just based on checking the lineups daily.  Thanks for clarifying. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Well Moose you are WRONG again.   Not about Jones or Valaika but about me defending Valaika.   I agree he is not part of the future.  I still think he would hit better play full time but that opportunity never happened with he O's and its unlike to happen ever.

There is couple of things to watch that might keep him in the  Orioles organization though.

1) If they are able to trade Galvis before the deadline.   Galvis is still owed 500K for the rest of the season.  I think Elias would love to save that money.

2) Valiaka  will cost around 290K to keep in the majors but they can option him and he will cost a little over 100K.   Its cheaper to option him then DFA him.  He has no trade value.

I'm not wrong, you actually said what I knew you were going to say....that he needs to play full time in order to hit better.  There's a reason it's not happening.

If we agree he's not part of the future then there's no reason to keep him unless we're in dire need or organizational filler.  

[wildcard]

57 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not wrong, you actually said what I knew you were going to say....that he needs to play full time in order to hit better.  There's a reason it's not happening.

If we agree he's not part of the future then there's no reason to keep him unless we're in dire need or organizational filler.  

If it cost less to option him than DFA him that may be a reason that he would stay in the organization for the rest of the season.

[7Mo]

1 hour ago, Big Mac said:

Seemed like he had been playing there more to me, but that was just based on checking the lineups daily.  Thanks for clarifying. 

He had been earlier so your point is/was a good one but it looks like there's more emphasis on second now. 

[Philip]

There is a difference between “not trying to win games” and “trying to lose games”

With that in mind, why do we still have Valaika?

Why have we not seen guys who 1) MAY be part of the future and/or 2) MAY be better than the slop we currently have.

I hate bad defense, and it is unlikely that Jones will ever be on a winning team, But at the very least, calling up a guy like him tells the guys on the big roster that there is a penalty for sloppy play.

[Philip]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

If it cost less to option him than DFA him that may be a reason that he would stay in the organization for the rest of the season.

If it cost less to option to him, isn’t that all the more reason to do so?

[SteveA]

12 minutes ago, Philip said:

There is a difference between “not trying to win games” and “trying to lose games”

With that in mind, why do we still have Valaika?

Why have we not seen guys who 1) MAY be part of the future and/or 2) MAY be better than the slop we currently have.

I hate bad defense, and it is unlikely that Jones will ever be on a winning team, But at the very least, calling up a guy like him tells the guys on the big roster that there is a penalty for sloppy play.

Because Elias is obviously slow playing anyone who might be a part of the future.

We can disagree with it all we want, but it's pretty damn obvious.

Keep banging your head against the wall but it won't change.   He's going to bring guys up on his timetable, whatever that is, and the fact that the guys we have in the majors sucking is not going to change that.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

Because Elias is obviously slow playing anyone who might be a part of the future.

We can disagree with it all we want, but it's pretty damn obvious.

Keep banging your head against the wall but it won't change.   He's going to bring guys up on his timetable, whatever that is, and the fact that the guys we have in the majors sucking is not going to change that.

Are you implying that he’s doing that because he thinks that’s best for their development, or that he’s doing it for service time reasons?    I doubt the latter is a factor for anyone on the current AAA roster.   

[SteveA]

Just now, Frobby said:

Are you implying that he’s doing that because he thinks that’s best for their development, or that he’s doing it for service time reasons?    I doubt the latter is a factor for anyone on the current AAA roster.   

I am not implying anything.   I don't know his reasons. 

But it's clear from observation that guys with any type of perceived future aren't the guys getting promotions.  Guys like Flaa, Wade, Jannis, Watkins, Anderson, Gutierrez, Wilkerson, Leyba are coming up when there are needs at the MLB level.

It's clear that he keeps prospects down in the minors longer than most of us would like, and longer than other GMs tend to also.  That is undisputable and based on observation.   I make no claim as to why, we can speculate all we want.

But every time one of these threads comes up and people start whining about someone not being up, it's like complaining about the sky being blue.   It is what it is.   Without knowing Elias's reasons, it's hard to say when it will change.   The one positive is that he drafted so many "old" guys in the draft they will have to start rising through the farm system in the next year or two and "pushing" guys up from behind, so I doubt Elias will be able to do this as much in future years.   But he is doing it consistently this year and each time it comes up, everyone comes up with all these reasons someone should be up, and it's just an exercise in futility.  Whining about it won't change it.  

As I said earlier in this thread, there is no connection between Jones and Valaika.  Jones will be promoted whenever Elias decides to, based on whatever criteria he is using.  Maybe that's tomorrow, maybe it's not this season.   But I don't think our MLB needs play into his decision making at all.   As I posted before, if Valaika went on a multi-state killing spree, that would not put Jones on our roster.   As the cops were loading Valaika in the back of the car, Stevie Wilkerson would be at the airport in Norfolk getting on a plane to come to Baltimore.  I've seen enough to convince me that any promotions of prospects are being made for reasons completely independent of need at the MLB level.   

[Philip]

6 hours ago, SteveA said:

Because Elias is obviously slow playing anyone who might be a part of the future.

We can disagree with it all we want, but it's pretty damn obvious.

Keep banging your head against the wall but it won't change.   He's going to bring guys up on his timetable, whatever that is, and the fact that the guys we have in the majors sucking is not going to change that.

Oh I don’t disagree with that, but I’m not talking about elite prospects. I’m talking about the John Means and Spenser Watkins guys of the world, the pleasant surprises, the “where the hell did he come from” guys.

I understand waiting on AR, but Lowther should be here, and Kremer too, and Jones and maybe Bannon and one or two other guys who don’t promise much but could surprise.

[Philip]

5 hours ago, SteveA said:

if Valaika went on a multi-state killing spree, that would not put Jones on our roster. 

Made me laff laff.

Still Laffin’

[wildcard]

10 hours ago, SteveA said:

I am not implying anything.   I don't know his reasons. 

But it's clear from observation that guys with any type of perceived future aren't the guys getting promotions.  Guys like Flaa, Wade, Jannis, Watkins, Anderson, Gutierrez, Wilkerson, Leyba are coming up when there are needs at the MLB level.

It's clear that he keeps prospects down in the minors longer than most of us would like, and longer than other GMs tend to also.  That is undisputable and based on observation.   I make no claim as to why, we can speculate all we want.

But every time one of these threads comes up and people start whining about someone not being up, it's like complaining about the sky being blue.   It is what it is.   Without knowing Elias's reasons, it's hard to say when it will change.   The one positive is that he drafted so many "old" guys in the draft they will have to start rising through the farm system in the next year or two and "pushing" guys up from behind, so I doubt Elias will be able to do this as much in future years.   But he is doing it consistently this year and each time it comes up, everyone comes up with all these reasons someone should be up, and it's just an exercise in futility.  Whining about it won't change it.  

As I said earlier in this thread, there is no connection between Jones and Valaika.  Jones will be promoted whenever Elias decides to, based on whatever criteria he is using.  Maybe that's tomorrow, maybe it's not this season.   But I don't think our MLB needs play into his decision making at all.   As I posted before, if Valaika went on a multi-state killing spree, that would not put Jones on our roster.   As the cops were loading Valaika in the back of the car, Stevie Wilkerson would be at the airport in Norfolk getting on a plane to come to Baltimore.  I've seen enough to convince me that any promotions of prospects are being made for reasons completely independent of need at the MLB level.   

I agree with this.   Elias criteria for promotion is much higher than mine.   Past that speculation on why Elias is waiting is futile.