Why did Elias DFA Tom Eshelman? Jones promotion and the OF traffic jam.

[wildcard]

I think I know what SG would say.  Its because Eshelman is no good.   But that is not the reason that Elias made the move.  My guess is he is ready to activate Richie Martin from the 60 day IL and needs the 40 man roster spot.   Martin will probably be assigned to AAA for at least a month.   Then Elias will decide it he is ready for a promotion to the majors.  

Speaking about the infield,  Baltimorebaseball.com has an article speculating that the O's are about ready to promote Jahmai Jones to the majors to play 2B.

https://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2021/08/02/minor-monday-jahmai-jones-nearing-promotion-orioles/

To me this the Ryan Mountcastle position fiasco  all over again.  The O's trying to be a square pen in a round hole.   The O's tried Ryan at SS/3B/LF before finally realizing that he is first baseman.    

All the reports I've read and what I have seen of Jones makes me feel he is not a 2B.   His best position is probably left field.     And while Hays will gets the majority of playing time at left field that does not change my belief that's Jones best position.   His bat is what gets him to the majors but it will not keep him at 2B IMO.   You can say what is the harm in playing Jones at 2B for the rest of the year and beside it probably being ugly you are probably right.  But let's not lose sight that there is probably a move to the outfield in Jones future again IMO.

With Stowers arriving in the majors next year sometime and Neustrom probably ready by next spring the O's will soon have plenty of corner outfielders.  Hays and Santander get the playing time in the corners for the last third of this season trying  to show they can hit major league pitching and hold on to their spots but if you count Jones  and oft injured  Diaz in that outfield competition there are more outfielders than spots and a trade or two are likely next year.

That traffic jam would seem to be a reason to trade Mancini from the DH/1B role but Mancini has something that none of those guys have.  A bat that produces 30 homers and 90+ RBI a season.    I am not saying how  all this turns out but the traffic jam is predictable.

[Sports Guy]

It doesn’t matter if Jones isn’t a second baseman right now.  You make him show you that he isn’t one at this level.

If that is proven, so be it..right now, on a team that doesn’t care about winning and one that has horrendous options like Valaika getting a lot of playing time over there, you see what you have because, why not?

[ChuckS]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It doesn’t matter if Jones isn’t a second baseman right now.  You make him show you that he isn’t one at this level.

If that is proven, so be it..right now, on a team that doesn’t care about winning and one that has horrendous options like Valaika getting a lot of playing time over there, you see what you have because, why not?

Yep, let's see what he can do.  His best position may be left field but by all accounts, he doesn't have the bat to carry him there so it looks like 2B or bust.  Let's find out. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

Yep, let's see what he can do.  His best position may be left field but by all accounts, he doesn't have the bat to carry him there so it looks like 2B or bust.  Let's find out. 

Right..his bat isn’t good enough for the OF and we have a lot of options there long term.  He has zero future as a LFer.  He is either a second baseman or a UTI guy, if he’s anything.  

[Yardball85]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It doesn’t matter if Jones isn’t a second baseman right now.  You make him show you that he isn’t one at this level.

If that is proven, so be it..right now, on a team that doesn’t care about winning and one that has horrendous options like Valaika getting a lot of playing time over there, you see what you have because, why not?

Exactly.  Jones should be starting at second base 5-6 times a week for the rest of the season unless he completely and utterly falls off.  If he's average/decent at second, great.  If not, you know that going into next season.

[Philip]

Why is every heart set on Jones at 2B when he’s got such bad defense that even Elias had to defend him? 
the purpose of the minors is for a guy to show his parameters. Often a guy is worse when he is promoted, but he’s rarely better. Why set him up to be a disaster at 2B? If he’s LF-bound, option Stewart and let Jones stumble around LF for a while.

Why DFA Eshelman instead of Anderson?

[OriolesMagic83]

It seems like Richie Martin is an extra piece.  If he was DFA'ed would he even be claimed.  It seems like the O's have a lot of AAAA prospects at 2B/SS.  They are sort of clogging the system in front of players who I hope can hold down a spot in the majors like Henderson and Westburg. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Philip said:

Why is every heart set on Jones at 2B when he’s got such bad defense that even Elias had to defend him? 
the purpose of the minors is for a guy to show his parameters. Often a guy is worse when he is promoted, but he’s rarely better. Why set him up to be a disaster at 2B? If he’s LF-bound, option Stewart and let Jones stumble around LF for a while.

Why DFA Eshelman instead of Anderson?

First of all because not everyone grossly overrates defense like you do.

Secondly because guys can improve.  Because we have no options and because in a year where winning isn’t important, you experiment with things to see what works long term.

If it fails, so what?  What will we have lost?  Will we be in much worse shape?  

[Tony-OH]

Seems like a strange time to promote Jones considering he's been in a slump for the last few weeks slashing .160/.208/.280/.488 over his last 14 games and 54 PAs. While Jones has held his own at AAA this season, he's hit just .238/.347/.420/.767 in 168 PAs this season against AAA right-handers. He's mashed left-handers which reminds me a bit of Richie Martin.

Defensively, I see a guy without great hands who doesn't turn a double play that great. Pat Valaika is definitely a steadier second baseman overall and has a stronger arm than Jones. His best position may ultimately be in left field, but I'm not sure he has the bat to profile there unless it's in a 4th outfielder type role and while his bat may be better than McKenna's, I don't think he's going to bring the defense and speed McKenna brings to the 4th outfielders role.

Ultimately, he's on the 40-man roster so if they want to take a look at him at 2B over Valaika that's fine since Valaika is not the future nor does he have trade value and is most likely a DFA candidate after the season. But saying that, I prefer to see guys promoted when they're hot, not cold.

 

[sportsfan8703]

No reason to not stick Jones at 2B all year. I mean Steve Pearce played 2B for a few games. It’s not like Jones is going to kill us in the standings. 
 

Do we really have an OF jam?  We have a bunch of names but each of them has their knocks. Health being the biggest one so far. 
 

Martin needs to get some MLB ABs this year if healthy. We need to see what we have before roster decision time in the offseason. Leyba and Valaika haven’t produced. Urias, Martin, and Jones, should be the next IF to see what they can do. 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It seems like Richie Martin is an extra piece.  If he was DFA'ed would he even be claimed.  It seems like the O's have a lot of AAAA prospects at 2B/SS.  They are sort of clogging the system in front of players who I hope can hold down a spot in the majors like Henderson and Westburg. 

I don't think Richie Martin is clogging the system. While Martin has been hurt a lot since making his debut in 2019 as a Rule 5 pick, he does have some value and still could end up an everyday second baseman, though I think his future is as a utility guy spelling guys against left-handed pitching.  Mason McCoy is starting in AAA and Martin can replace him while also bouncing around to other positions.

Besides, Henderson needs to stay in Aberdeen all season and Westburg could move up to AA with time sharing SS with Grenier and 3B with Dorrian who can swing over to 1B.

[Philip]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

First of all because not everyone grossly overrates defense like you do.

Secondly because guys can improve.  Because we have no options and because in a year where winning isn’t important, you experiment with things to see what works long term.

If it fails, so what?  What will we have lost?  Will we be in much worse shape?  

Listen pal, when a guy is terrible, he’s terrible. Do YOU like watching the infield floundering like  a trout in the bottom of the boat?

We had the same problem with Mountcastle. They insisted he was a left fielder and he was awful and now he’s where he should be. I was right about him.

We had the same problem with Sisco and his repellent defense and I was right with him too, and they finally agreed and shipped him off. 
 

If a guy shows his defensive limitations you don’t insist that he continue to show them, you put him where he can succeed. That’s just logic.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

Listen pal, when a guy is terrible, he’s terrible. Do YOU like watching the infield floundering like  a trout in the bottom of the boat?

We had the same problem with Mountcastle. They insisted he was a left fielder and he was awful and now he’s where he should be. I was right about him.

We had the same problem with Sisco and his repellent defense and I was right with him too, and they finally agreed and shipped him off. 
 

If a guy shows his defensive limitations you don’t insist that he continue to show them, you put him where he can succeed. That’s just logic.

And we are sooooooo much worse off that Sisco got his chances up here.

What I don’t like watching is a garbage product that fans placate too because they think losing for 5 years is what you need to do to be successful and since that is what is happening, I don’t really care if a younger, higher upside player gets a chance to show us if he can improve and be competent at a position of current need.

[Philip]

12 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

It seems like Richie Martin is an extra piece.  If he was DFA'ed would he even be claimed.  It seems like the O's have a lot of AAAA prospects at 2B/SS.  They are sort of clogging the system in front of players who I hope can hold down a spot in the majors like Henderson and Westburg. 

I just a checked the rosters at Norfolk and Bowie. We don’t have a logjam at middle Infield. I’m happy to bring up Bannon or McCoy but they can’t hit. Leyba can’t hit either,though, and he’s here so that’s not a reason not to promote them.

[Philip]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And we are sooooooo much worse off that Sisco got his chances up here.

What I don’t like watching is a garbage product that fans placate too because they think losing for 5 years is what you need to do to be successful and since that is what is happening, I don’t really care if a younger, higher upside player gets a chance to show us if he can improve and be competent at a position of current need.

Don’t you think this is a garbage product? Don’t you think we wasted time continuing to play Sisco when he showed he could neither hit nor defend? Aren’t we wasting time now playing some of the guys we have instead of bringing up some more guys who might do well? We lost a few games because MC can’t play left. Winning those games wouldn’t have harmed our “Plan”

Im all for bringing up Jones: he may be the only guy in AAA or AA combined who can hit. But put him in LF or DH. 

And yeah I don’t mind trying him at 2B for a while.