New article evaluates the Duquette 2018 trades and suggest we lost most all the trades badly.

[GuidoSarducci]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I agree with you but the only caveat to that is what is the market dictating in any given year.

Also, as I mentioned, money plays a big part.  Manny was owed a lot of money that year still and the Os weren’t picking any of it up.  Teams were paying for bigger prospects this year.

A few million is/was chump change for the Dodgers..  I don’t think we could have upgraded the return by sending them more money,  

[sportsfan8703]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That trade looked better at the time than it does in hindsight, with Diaz stagnating and Kremer disappointing.   I haven’t given up on either player, but I’m not counting on them, either.   

Nobody would’ve turned down a 5 tool, $31mm, recent  Cuban defector, futures game MVP, for Machado.  Nobody.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, GuidoSarducci said:

A few million is/was chump change for the Dodgers..  I don’t think we could have upgraded the return by sending them more money,  

All money isn't equal.

Obviously the Dodgers don't need actual money but lowering their cap number might be enticing.

Not saying it would have been the case in this instance.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, GuidoSarducci said:

A few million is/was chump change for the Dodgers..  I don’t think we could have upgraded the return by sending them more money,  

You always can.  The Yankees just sent more to the Rangers because they picked up Gallos contract this year.

Same thing with the Rizzo deal.

You also don’t know what others may have given up if you were picking up a big chunk of the deal.

[ArtVanDelay]

8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If we hadn’t lost Pop, we were looking at eventually having Diaz, Pop, Tate, Zimmerman, and Kremer, all on the team together at some point next season. 5/26 aint bad. Almost 1/5th of our next “possibly good” team in 2023. 
 

Plus then all the money DD saved. I’m sure that will make it back to the club in some capacity. Haha

I’ll be surprised if Diaz ever plays a game in the majors. Kremer and Zimmerman are bad. Tate could be something. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

9 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Any return for Gausman got reduced by including O'Day and his contract in the trade. 

I know it's extremely old news at this point, but every time I see it come up, my left eye twitches a bit and my jaw muscles tense up and my teeth grit audibly, so with all apologies to what's left of that poor horse, I'm getting a few more good licks in 

I was infuriated by this move then, I am infuriated by this move now, and I will be infuriated by this move forever. O'Day was due a few more million for 2018 and then $9 million in 2019 before becoming a free agent, and the Orioles' payroll was already going to be way down in 2019 thanks to the other trades, any expiring contracts we could not unload at the deadline, and potentially a few non-tenders of borderline guys if truly necessary. We intentionally reduced our prospect return pretty significantly for a talented former first round pick with a couple of years of control left when our farm system was pretty friggin' barren and in desperate need of restocking just to jettison a contract due to expire at the end of the next season anyway. It was not as if we were being relieved of the burden of a large underwater long-term contract like Chris Davis's.

Utterly ridiculous and an absolutely perfect example of how and why this franchise has ended up being a joke for the majority of my 37 years on this Earth  

(The eye/jaw/teeth part was slightly hyperbolic, but only slightly)

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I know it's extremely old news at this point, but every time I see it come up, my left eye twitches a bit and my jaw muscles tense up and my teeth grit audibly, so with all apologies to what's left of that poor horse, I'm getting a few more good licks in 

I was infuriated by this move then, I am infuriated by this move now, and I will be infuriated by this move forever. O'Day was due a few more million for 2018 and then $9 million in 2019 before becoming a free agent, and the Orioles' payroll was already going to be way down in 2019 thanks to the other trades, any expiring contracts we could not unload at the deadline, and potentially a few non-tenders of borderline guys if truly necessary. We intentionally reduced our prospect return pretty significantly for a talented former first round pick with a couple of years of control left when our farm system was pretty friggin' barren and in desperate need of restocking just to jettison a contract due to expire at the end of the next season anyway. It was not as if we were being relieved of the burden of a large underwater long-term contract like Chris Davis's.

Utterly ridiculous and an absolutely perfect example of how and why this franchise has ended up being a joke for the majority of my 37 years on this Earth  

(The eye/jaw/teeth part was slightly hyperbolic, but only slightly)

The O's dumped ~11M of O'Days' contract.

They had to throw away second round draft picks to dump the Matuz and Webb contracts.  That was only 4.75M in savings. 

At that rate of exchange the O's gave up the equivalent of roughly four second round picks worth of talent.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The O's dumped ~11M of O'Days' contract.

They had to throw away second round draft picks to dump the Matuz and Webb contracts.  That was only 4.75M in savings. 

At that rate of exchange the O's gave up the equivalent of roughly four second round picks worth of talent.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

But hey they got all that international slot money from the Braves so they could jumpstart their International program.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

At that rate of exchange the O's gave up the equivalent of roughly four second round picks worth of talent.

You don't say.

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

But hey they got all that international slot money from the Braves so they could jumpstart their International program.

Wait, so that didn’t happen?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

41 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Wait, so that didn’t happen?

The Orioles spent and traded nearly $8 million in international bonus slots in 2018-19. Here's where it went.

Quote

The Orioles traded approximately $5.75 million of this year’s bonus pool away, according to a baseball source with direct knowledge but not authorized to speak publicly on the matter. So, while the exact amounts traded for Jackson, Lebron, Rodriguez and Araujo weren't made public, they total $2 million, as the trades for Zoellner, Moore, Broxton, Smith and Eshelman totaled $3.75 million.

 

In a sense, the Orioles' 2018-19 signing period wasn't different from any of the others in that they traded away all of the allotted $5.5 million the league initially allowed them to spend. The deals with the Braves meant they had plenty to spend on players, and they spent about $2 million on international amateurs this period.

 

[brvn52]

14 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The only questions I have are this:

 

1) Had we paid some money, would the offers have been better?  Logic says yes but its not 100%.

2) Did Duq look for quantity over quality.  

An example is this...I wanted Lux and May for Manny.  At that time, neither player was a top 100 guy.  Lux was a first round pick(I believe) the year before, so the organization obviously liked him and May was an ascending player in their system.  Both appeared to be on the path to be top 100 guys by the offseason.  Now, I have no idea if the Os could have had those players.  There were rumors they were interested in May but who knows.  My question is, if they could have had those guys, does DD take that deal or does he take the deal with 5 players, one of which was a top 50 guy?  

That is the info we just don't have and may never know.  

 

My guess is that the O's could have done better if management wasn't so keen on pocketing money.  I didn't (and still don't) mind the deals with the info we know is true.  I would say that the info we don't have likely means we wouldn't like these deals, even without the benefit of hindsight.

This is the most I’ve seen. Lux was a fast riser (May too if I remember correctly). Seems like Diaz + May was about as good as we could’ve got. 

[Sports Guy]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

The O's dumped ~11M of O'Days' contract.

They had to throw away second round draft picks to dump the Matuz and Webb contracts.  That was only 4.75M in savings. 

At that rate of exchange the O's gave up the equivalent of roughly four second round picks worth of talent.

Yea but PA’s new boat is pretty sweet!

[Sports Guy]

5 hours ago, brvn52 said:

This is the most I’ve seen. Lux was a fast riser (May too if I remember correctly). Seems like Diaz + May was about as good as we could’ve got. 

 Very possible.  I know Jon acts connected but I don’t know if he is or not.

Either way, I can see this being true.  And this is the exact stuff that would make me say the deal was terrible.  I don’t feel DD did a bad job at all with the Manny trade, it just hasn’t worked out because of the Diaz and Pop injuries and the Kremer set back.  
 

That being said, if you let higher ceiling prospects go for quantity, that’s where I have an issue.