Tim Dierkes: Orioles should trade John Means

[maybenxtyr]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think, at least for some folks, is they are hoping they sell.

I've been thinking they would sell a soon as something happens to their father. There's really no other reason to run a team in the ground like they have, and for so long.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

I've been thinking they would sell a soon as something happens to their father. There's really no other reason to run a team in the ground like they have, and for so long.

Why sell when you can just keep payroll low and rake in profits?  Team values never go down and demands for teams is always high.  I don't see an incentive to sell.

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why sell when you can just keep payroll low and rake in profits?  Team values never go down and demands for teams is always high.  I don't see an incentive to sell.

I don't disagree, but eventually any interest will fall off. I guess there will be profits still, but they may be interested in a chunk and move on with their lives. 

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why sell when you can just keep payroll low and rake in profits?  Team values never go down and demands for teams is always high. I don't see an incentive to sell.

So, as a seller, wouldn’t that be a reason to maximize profit, especially in a business for which you had little interest in its overall success?

Demand for a team in a profitable sports league is high. And they will have made a boatload of money compared to the purchase price. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

So, as a seller, wouldn’t that be a reason to maximize profit, especially in a business for which you had little interest in its overall success?

Demand for a team in a profitable sports league is high. And they will have made a boatload of money compared to the purchase price. 

I'm not saying they won't sell, just that I don't see anything that leads me to believe they will pick one path or the other.

 

[Il BuonO]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not saying they won't sell, just that I don't see anything that leads me to believe they will pick one path or the other.

Agreed. No indication one way or the other, which, is also frustrating for many of the fan base.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think all these low payroll savings are earmarked for the estate tax and not a front line pitcher in 2023.

Why does estate tax have anything  to do with the O's sale?

Peter is 92.   He has been married to Georgia since 1966.   55 years.   Long before he/they bought the Orioles.   According to White Pages Georgia is 79 years old.

Georgia Angelos

Age 79

Monkton, MD

 

So if there are martial rights from husband to wife which do not require estate taxes why would they  matter?

 

 

 

 

 

[sportsfan8703]

Why would we dump money into a team that might now win 50 games?  I’d trade Means and bring in someone other than Holt. Maybe all the pitchers failing isn’t his fault, but someone has to take the fall. Literally no starting pitcher has seized the opportunity, and it looks like they’ve regressed with the yanking up/down. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Why would we dump money into a team that might now win 50 games?  I’d trade Means and bring in someone other than Holt. Maybe all the pitchers failing isn’t his fault, but someone has to take the fall. Literally no starting pitcher has seized the opportunity, and it looks like they’ve regressed with the yanking up/down. 

So you are suggesting that in year four of the rebuild under Elias the team could still be sitting at a 50- 112 mark?  

That would be getting into historical levels of ineptitude right?

[spiritof66]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Why does estate tax have anything  to do with the O's sale?

Peter is 92.   He has been married to Georgia since 1966.   55 years.   Long before he/they bought the Orioles.   According to White Pages Georgia is 79 years old.

Georgia Angelos

Age 79

Monkton, MD

 

So if there are martial right from husband to wife which do not require estate taxes why would they  matter?

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Peter leaves all his assets to his widow, there will be no estate tax due on his death. (I think the same is true of the Maryland inheritance tax.) Instead, those estate tax obligations will arise upon her death. That is, the estate and inheritance taxes won't go away; they will just get deferred until her death. And there's some prospect that those taxes will be increased as recently introduced legislation wends its way through Congress to possible enactment and go into effect.

Under the MLB Constitution, in order for a bequest of Peter Angelos that his majority interest in the Orioles be left to Georgia Angelos to become effective, Georgia would would to be approved as the new majority owner by a majority of MLB teams. I think it's unlikely that MLB owners would approve Georgia Angelos as the owner of the Orioles, in light of these facts (that is, facts as I understand them): (a) her inexperience in running a sports franchise (or any other business, so far as I know), (b) the lack of income available to her from sources other than baseball, and the financial insecurity of the Orioles franchise and its inability to withstand financial hardships from a work stoppage, pandemic, etc., (c) her husband's and sons' miserable record running the Orioles over the decades, including not only lack of success on the field but also a constant stream of poor decisions that have weakened the franchise and embarrassed MLB, (d) the fact that the Angelos family's ownership of the team will be limited since her estate will be forced to sell the team when she dies, and (e) the personal enmity of the Commissioner and some owners -- I don't know how many -- toward Peter Angelos.

I can imagine that the owners would give Georgia Angelos some time to sell the team -- maybe two or even five years, something like that -- but I would be surprised if they approved her as the owner of the Baltimore Orioles without some strict limitation on that. 

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

I could see them working out a deal in which she is allowed to own the team in return for them selling their majority share in MASN.

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, 7Mo said:

I was just about to ask Sports Guy. I see all the speculation about a sale but is there anything concrete anywhere, of any kind, indicating a post mortem sale? 

If estate taxes were actually an issue, why wouldn't the brothers just sell minority interests and keep the majority?

Well, you have to have the desire to keep it and there are issues with that.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

 

If Peter leaves all his assets to his widow, there will be no estate tax due on his death. (I think the same is true of the Maryland inheritance tax.) Instead, those estate tax obligations will arise upon her death. That is, the estate and inheritance taxes won't go away; they will just get deferred until her death. And there's some prospect that those taxes will be increased as recently introduced legislation wends its way through Congress to possible enactment and go into effect.

Under the MLB Constitution, in order for a bequest of Peter Angelos that his majority interest in the Orioles be left to Georgia Angelos to become effective, Georgia would would to be approved as the new majority owner by a majority of MLB teams. I think it's unlikely that MLB owners would approve Georgia Angelos as the owner of the Orioles, in light of these facts (that is, facts as I understand them): (a) her inexperience in running a sports franchise (or any other business, so far as I know), (b) the lack of income available to her from sources other than baseball, and the financial insecurity of the Orioles franchise and its inability to withstand financial hardships from a work stoppage, pandemic, etc., (c) her husband's and sons' miserable record running the Orioles over the decades, including not only lack of success on the field but also a constant stream of poor decisions that have weakened the franchise and embarrassed MLB, (d) the fact that the Angelos family's ownership of the team will be limited since her estate will be forced to sell the team when she dies, and (e) the personal enmity of the Commissioner and some owners -- I don't know how many -- toward Peter Angelos.

I can imagine that the owners would give Georgia Angelos some time to sell the team -- maybe two or even five years, something like that -- but I would be surprised if they approved her as the owner of the Baltimore Orioles without some strict limitation on that. 

 

 

I question your 2nd paragraph.   If Georgia becomes owner with John as Orioles Executive he has already been officially name to running the team.   He has been involved with the team through he 2012-2016 period where they won more games than any team in the League.   That is a measure of success.  John has also managed MASN.

As far as the MASN lawsuit with MLB.  This sounds like a good reason to settle the issue without the Angelos Suing MLB yet again for not allowing them to continue as owners.

 

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, you have to have the desire to keep it and there are issues with that.

Spell it out.  What issues?

[Brooks The Great]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:32 PM, waynebug said:

There's also the issue that if you extend him you're buying into his age 32 season.

Dierkes is the owner and creator of MLB Trade Rumors.  He gets 100s of thousands of views every day.

Today's Mailbag was for subscribers only.  I think I pay $3 a month.

"Quint" asked  would he trade Means and what could he expect to get in return.   He mentioned outfielder Robert Hassell of the Padres currently the #37 prospect in somebody's eyes. 

I would trade Means for Hassell in a heartbeat. Hassell is going to be a stud.