Hard to argue with it.

[NCRaven]

Correa’s one year deal (that’s really what it is) gives the Orioles another year to evaluate Henderson, Westburg and Ortiz to determine whether the team really needs to spend $30+ million per year on one player.

[Sports Guy]

I will ask this another way.

If a press conference was held tomorrow and the team announced that they aren’t trying to win games because ownership doesn’t want to spend money, would you be ok with that?

[geschinger]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, it’s not wasting them this year although Adley should have been brought up last year and the team should be trying for 500 this year.

But it will be wasting them in 2023 if you aren’t doing a lot more.  Winning 75 games in 2023 means you are going to take these guys into year 3 before POTENTIAL contention and even that potential is only realized if prospects develop AND the team brings in better outside talent.  As you pointed out before, improving 40 games in 2 years isn’t very realistic even if it is possible.

They are at least a year behind where they should be and using the COVID year as an excuse for that is wrong.  

I would be highly disappointed if this team is still a 52 win team in 2022.  For me success is a a 30 game improvement between 2021 and 2023.  That would be a massive improvent in that short of time and I think that is realistic if the players develop as we hope and Elias has the resources to add to it.   That would have the team as a legitimate contender in 2024 assuming again, Elias then has the freedom to continue adding missing pieces. 

[forphase1]

32 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I will ask this another way.

If a press conference was held tomorrow and the team announced that they aren’t trying to win games because ownership doesn’t want to spend money, would you be ok with that?

No, of course not.  But not all believe that to be the situation.  I trust Elias when he says that when the time is right they will spend money.  And I can clearly see why that 'right time' isn't now.  Hopefully I'm talking a different tune next year as many of the questions that need answered are answered with the results from this year.  Just too many unknowns right now in my opinion, enough to give a valid reason for not adding expensive free agents.  My patience is also wearing thin, but I'm also being realistic on what young talent has, or hasn't, accomplished yet. 

[MGH5208]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I will ask this another way.

If a press conference was held tomorrow and the team announced that they aren’t trying to win games because ownership doesn’t want to spend money, would you be ok with that?

"another way?"  lol

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I wasn't really interested in Correa or Story or Bryant or any of the other big ticket guys, but I would have been pretty satisfied if we had done something like sign 3B Johan Camargo, SP Chad Kuhl, and SP Steven Brault, 3 non-tenders in areas of need for us with some past MLB success and some future team control, who, combined, signed for a bit less than Jordan Lyles, and even an incredibly modest offseason dream like that, which most people would defensibly call "dumpster diving," was too much to ask for. It's hard to not find that pretty depressing.

I might not go quite as hard as an F grade, but I'm not really going to put much effort into arguing against it either. Why split hairs over another 100ish loss team?

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, forphase1 said:

No, of course not.  But not all believe that to be the situation.  I trust Elias when he says that when the time is right they will spend money.  And I can clearly see why that 'right time' isn't now.  Hopefully I'm talking a different tune next year as many of the questions that need answered are answered with the results from this year.  Just too many unknowns right now in my opinion, enough to give a valid reason for not adding expensive free agents.  My patience is also wearing thin, but I'm also being realistic on what young talent has, or hasn't, accomplished yet. 

Ok, so if the reason for them not caring about winning is “baseball related”, you are ok with that?

But if it is, owners are trying to squeeze out as much time as possible to not spend money, you aren’t ok with that?

Do I have that right?

[Just Regular]

On Rays-ian general managers holding $$$ close, it caught me a little by surprise to read this morning that before Story, Chaim Bloom, hired one year after Mike Elias and now building his 3rd Red Sox team, had never guaranteed more than Matt Barnes' $18 million before the other day.

At the beginning of his tenure, trading Mookie was his Job 1.

I wonder if he is coming off consecutive F's by these guys ratings.

[Yardball85]

10 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

What happens next offseason when we are “more ready” to spend and the FA list sucks and there’s no one to sign?  Or what happens if there are some struggles and/or injuries by the prospects and not as much development?  Do we hold off again?

Like where is the line drawn and  why should we believe that they will all of a sudden go past that line?

Im not even saying they won’t spend long term.  I think they will.  Whether they spend it properly or not, who knows.  But not spending now is just delaying things as much as possible because they are cash poor and aren’t willing to make the team better right now.  
 

Next offseason people will say the same thing.  Oh, we might have improved by a few games, but oh, just wait until NEXT YEAR (2024), then they will "really" be ready to spend and improve the team.  And that will happen every offseason.

[Yardball85]

14 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The idea that people can’t grasp this is one of the oddest things I have seen on this site.

There are a lot of really smart people on here.  They should be able to understand this.

Right.  Why can't they add players (who make sense, not just anyone) to the MLB roster, and if they and your incoming prospects play well, you have a pleasant predicament of multiple good players for a few positions.  Trade them for pitching.  Be creative in some way, shape, or form.  Some people are convinced that the team has to be terrible and cheap until the prospects are ready. 

And another thing - we are people who like baseball.  This does not have to be some soulless, objective exercise.  My summers are more enjoyable when I am watching a winning MLB team.  That simple. 

[Sports Guy]

10 hours ago, geschinger said:

I would be highly disappointed if this team is still a 52 win team in 2022.  For me success is a a 30 game improvement between 2021 and 2023.  That would be a massive improvent in that short of time and I think that is realistic if the players develop as we hope and Elias has the resources to add to it.   That would have the team as a legitimate contender in 2024 assuming again, Elias then has the freedom to continue adding missing pieces. 

The one thing I will say to this is that I don't think the record is an indication of what the team should have been.  I think they easily could have been a 60-65 win team in 2021.  Had some bad luck and things happened to a few key guys but overall, as bad as the team was, I don't think the real talent was that of a 52 win team.

[geschinger]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The one thing I will say to this is that I don't think the record is an indication of what the team should have been.  I think they easily could have been a 60-65 win team in 2021.  Had some bad luck and things happened to a few key guys but overall, as bad as the team was, I don't think the real talent was that of a 52 win team.

I don't know, it was a really bad team.  I have no idea the accuracy of the expected W/L metrics but every one I've seen had the Orioles finishing with a record consistent with where they landed.  In comparison, the Diamondbacks were a team that finished with 52 wins that those same metrics that implied that the should have been a 60 win team.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The one thing I will say to this is that I don't think the record is an indication of what the team should have been.  I think they easily could have been a 60-65 win team in 2021.  Had some bad luck and things happened to a few key guys but overall, as bad as the team was, I don't think the real talent was that of a 52 win team.

The pitching was far worse than I expected, mostly because none of the young guys stepped up.   They will need to do it this year for the record to show significant improvement.   

[Just Regular]

11 hours ago, NCRaven said:

Correa’s one year deal (that’s really what it is) gives the Orioles another year to evaluate Henderson, Westburg and Ortiz to determine whether the team really needs to spend $30+ million per year on one player.

Beyond Stroman's $23M, the Cubs dropped another ~$15M on $5M Smyly, $5M Givens, $3.5M David Robertson, and $2.5M Chris Martin.

If the 2023 Orioles were to use marginal payroll millions ~30-65 next winter, between a Rental Group like that and the pitchers on hand in the organization, you might be able to envision a decent staff.    It is the upper minors test year for a lot of our infielders to discover if there's a shortstop, or any regulars at all, there.

Daniel Norris, Jesse Chavez, and Steven Brault are other new Cubs for even less as they perhaps flirt with 8-10 new pitchers since September.

[interloper]

If the reports are true about Correa asking the O's what they're going to do to be a "favorite" in the AL East, then he will never come here. If it's not about the money and it's about being a playoff team, there's no way he'll come here next year. The O's can only say "trust us, the team is on the rise", but they don't have the power to say "the team is on the rise AND we'll be signing a bunch of guys" because guys, like Correa himself, don't want to come here until it's looking a lot better. They might be able to attract a couple guys, but they can't confidently state they'll compete for multiple top-of-class free agents like other teams can. 

It's the classic chicken and egg thing.