Means to 60-day, O's option Wells not Lakins, purchase Diplan from Norfolk

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You could still get looks for those guys with a rotation of Ed-Rod and Kluber.  

Everyone understands wanting to get looks for the younger guys but that's no reason to have a rotation like we currently do.  Had they gone into the season with a 1, 2, 3 of Means, Ed-Rod and Kluber, that still gives room for Bradish to come up at some point, Rodriguez too.  

 

I would have liked a better guy than Lyles but I don't know about more guys. Let's assume we know there is going to be a significant injury that will open a permanent spot for Grayson. You've still got Means/Grayson, T. Wells, and Zimmerman taking up the top three. That leaves two spots for Bradish, Akin, Kremer, Lowther, Alex Wells, Baumann, plus potentially Ellis, Watkins, and Kevin Smith. Do you really want all those guys fighting for one spot? Then you risk Bradish getting the Lowther/Gausman treatment and who knows that that does to his development. 

Admittedly I'd rather have Ed Rod than Lyles, I think we all agree on that.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

5 minutes ago, scbalt52 said:

Yes but now Bradish just pitched yesterday so there isn't any chance of that.

Pitched well in terrible pitching conditions.

[Aristotelian]

Just now, wildcard said:

Lyles, T Wells and Zimmerman are looked good vs the Yankees.  Add Grayson and Bradish in two to three weeks and the O's have a pretty good rotation even without Means.

Based on a very small sample size but I agree with your point. The Yankee series is "proof of concept" that we have some guys with potential talent, and we will never know until they get opportunities.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Lyles, T Wells and Zimmerman looked good vs the Yankees.  Add Grayson and Bradish in two to three weeks and the O's have a pretty good rotation even without Means.

How did Lyles and Wells look in their first starts?  How did Wells look as a starter prior to 2022?  How has Lyles been as a starter in recent years?

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, seak05 said:

I mean, but you really can't? Or you can see Bradish and G-Rod, but not Zimmerman and T. Wells who have both shown promise, and Hall. Starts are really a zero sum game. If you want to look at 5-6 guys as SP, you can't have a rotation with several already set pieces (obviously they also weren't counting on a season long injury for Means, but that's why you generally want 6 SP). 

Also I do not understand the Kluber love, he hasn't pitched even 100 innings since 2018...that's not really a guy you bring in to eat innings. And he's not old (for a ML pitcher)

But you really can?  

IMO, roster spots for prospects need to be earned, not held.  I'm not interested in holding a rotation spot for anyone, really, outside of Grayson Rodriguez because he's done enough in the minors to earn it.  

It may sound callous, but I'd rather see G-Rod and Bradish but not Zimmermann and T. Wells.  I'd rather have kept Wells in the bullpen where he showed promise last year rather than try to stretch him out this year, but whatever, I get the argument for wanting to see if he can start.  Quite frankly, I don't need to see Akin in a starting role again and I also don't feel the need to see Kremer and Lowther wear an Orioles uniform again.  I would much rather have promoted G-Rod and AR this year with actual major leaguers surrounding them and not the Travis Lakins of the world.  I would want AR to catch innings from guys like Ed-Rod and Kluber.  I would want G-Rod to be in meetings with Ed-Rod and Kluber.  You can't put a value on on that.  I mean, I've heard Jim Palmer not shut up for 20 years about how his first roommate was Robin Roberts.  Do you think that was done by accident?

What do you not understand about the Kluber love, other than he doesn't walk anyone and a team that is way smarter and does everything better than us saw some value in bringing him in?  

[Tony-OH]

56 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Has Elias publicly said that that the team is trying to win more games this year?  I agree that the early roster management doesn't appear that way.  Watkins is kind of the bellwether there for me.  

Seems to me like 2022 has been earmarked as more of the same, with the exception that we'll start to see some actual prospects trickling in soon.

That's a good question. Other who pay more attention to his comments my be able to respond more appropriately. This just seemed like the year to try out real prospects and establish who is part of the future while trying to win games.

Having Odor taking up a space at 2B taking away Gutierrez at bats or maybe even giving Jahmai Jones or Tyler Nevin shots . These are the guys we need to look at if they are found wanting then we know they can be DFA'd off he 40-man.

Your offseason was not very good if Spenser Watkins is starting game five of your season and the first two reliever promotions are Travis Lakins and Marcos Diplan. 

I'm happy Akin and Baumann are in the bullpen and thriving in their new roles, that needed to happen. Wells was up here but then gets optioned so they can bring up another Lakins-type reliever in Diplan. Now I will assume either Lains or Diplan goes to the minors for Ellis (most likely) to start Tuesday in Oakland, but none of these names are too exciting.

It time for Rodriguez and Bradish to come up and take their radiation spots. They've been down long enough to get that extra year of control so let's get them up here and stop playing games with mediocre relievers comeing up and blowing games.

The bullpen is actually really good right now and I'd rather see them give shots to guys like Sedlock or Vespi before bringing up DFA fodder like Lakins and Diplan.

 

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Even when the Orioles are in "win now" mode, I am unconvinced they will spend the money to sign pitchers like Ed-Rod and Kluber. But, yeah besides the money spent there isn't any reason why Elias couldn't have upgraded the starting rotation and also give prospects a chance to pitch.

Right now we're getting none of the above. Tomorrow would be a good opportunity to call up Bradish and have him make his first start in a pitcher friendly ballpark at Oakland. 

I hope they'll spend money when they're in "win now" mode.  But first, I would hope that they'd spend to keep guys like AR, G-Rod and whatever other home grown talent comes up that looks to be part of an identifiable core.  

12 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Yeah, I think Bradish is pretty much a lock as well.  If Stowers hits the way he has so far (in a VERY small SSS) then he's a lock as well.

I of course think DL Hall should also be up here but they've made it clear that's not happening soon.  If Westburg kills it he might get a cup of coffee but doubtful.  Possibly Terrin Vavra.

But honestly, even if it's just those 4, at least that's something.  Real, actual prospects as opposed to sacrificial lambs.

I agree, I think it's those 4 for this year and that's it.  Maybe Westburg, too.  We won't see DL Hall for awhile.  

[seak05]

Essentially, I think several members of this board are "over" an entire group of O's "prospects" that are now in their mid-20's and have bounced back and forth between MLB and Triple-A. This is the group that Elias said had to step up, but many members here would just like to see replaced. Diplan, Akin, Bauman, A. Wells, Zimmerman, T. Wells, Matteo (basically most of the team) is all mid-20's. Given the struggles they've had in the majors over the last year or two, I get the sentiment. Cortes is a good example though of a guy who just needed some more time, and is now proving to be very good. Patience is sometimes rewarded 

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Lyles, T Wells and Zimmerman looked good vs the Yankees.  Add Grayson and Bradish in two to three weeks and the O's have a pretty good rotation even without Means.

wildcard, king of the small sample size.  

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How did Lyles and Wells look in their first starts?  How did Wells look as a starter prior to 2022?  How has Lyles been as a starter in recent years?

2019 Jordan Lyles  12-8,  4.12 ERA,  28 S, 141 IP, 131 H, 146 K,  1.319 WHIP

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

2019 Jordan Lyles  12-8,  4.12 ERA,  28 S, 141 IP, 131 H, 146 K,  1.319 WHIP

How about 2020 and 2021?

2019 was also in the NL and his FIP was 4.64.

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I would have liked a better guy than Lyles but I don't know about more guys. Let's assume we know there is going to be a significant injury that will open a permanent spot for Grayson. You've still got Means/Grayson, T. Wells, and Zimmerman taking up the top three. That leaves two spots for Bradish, Akin, Kremer, Lowther, Alex Wells, Baumann, plus potentially Ellis, Watkins, and Kevin Smith. Do you really want all those guys fighting for one spot? Then you risk Bradish getting the Lowther/Gausman treatment and who knows that that does to his development. 

Admittedly I'd rather have Ed Rod than Lyles, I think we all agree on that.

Yes, I wasn't including Lyles in that hypothetical rotation because I didn't want him in the first place.

 

I picture a fight between Akin, Kremer, Lowther, Alex Wells, Baumann, Ellis, Watkins and Smith looking like this:

 

[Tony-OH]

14 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I know that's out the window, but maybe the next homestand will provide an opportunity to call up Bradish. 

I'm curious to see how Akin would do if given the start Tuesday night and if he can avoid reverting back to his 2021 form as a starting pitcher. 

I hope the Orioles do NOT do that. Call up Ellis, let him make the start and keep Akin and Baumann in their bulk roles. Don't mess with success. Some guys just don't pitch well every five days or thinking about that next start and need to know they could be pitching more often. Both Akin and Baumann have more of a bullpen mentality anyways.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

That's a good question. Other who pay more attention to his comments my be able to respond more appropriately. This just seemed like the year to try out real prospects and establish who is part of the future while trying to win games.

Having Odor taking up a space at 2B taking away Gutierrez at bats or maybe even giving Jahmai Jones or Tyler Nevin shots . These are the guys we need to look at if they are found wanting then we know they can be DFA'd off he 40-man.

 

 

 

It's moves like signing Odor that leave me scratching my head more than not signing any legitimate veteran pitchers to fill out the staring rotation. Ok so the Orioles aren't going to try and win this year, but then you sign veteran retreads like Odor to takeaway at bats from younger players.

While most of the Orioles on the current MLB roster aren't going to be around when/if the team starts winning again the same can be said about Odor. So why not let a younger player get those at bats and see if they play above expectations. It's not likely, but maybe a Jahmai Jones surprises and ends up playing for the Orioles the next five seasons.

Unless Odor has some mid-career renaissance we know what he is and it's not a player who will get meaningful at bats on a playoff contender. 

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's a good question. Other who pay more attention to his comments my be able to respond more appropriately. This just seemed like the year to try out real prospects and establish who is part of the future while trying to win games.

Having Odor taking up a space at 2B taking away Gutierrez at bats or maybe even giving Jahmai Jones or Tyler Nevin shots . These are the guys we need to look at if they are found wanting then we know they can be DFA'd off he 40-man.

Your offseason was not very good if Spenser Watkins is starting game five of your season and the first two reliever promotions are Travis Lakins and Marcos Diplan. 

I'm happy Akin and Baumann are in the bullpen and thriving in their new roles, that needed to happen. Wells was up here but then gets optioned so they can bring up another Lakins-type reliever in Diplan. Now I will assume either Lains or Diplan goes to the minors for Ellis (most likely) to start Tuesday in Oakland, but none of these names are too exciting.

It time for Rodriguez and Bradish to come up and take their radiation spots. They've been down long enough to get that extra year of control so let's get them up here and stop playing games with mediocre relievers comeing up and blowing games.

The bullpen is actually really good right now and I'd rather see them give shots to guys like Sedlock or Vespi before bringing up DFA fodder like Lakins and Diplan.

 

I can't complain about Watkins being in the rotation until Grayson and Bradish are promoted. The only reason Watkins is getting a chance is because, Means and  Kremer got hurt and Lowther has shown almost nothing this spring.    Watkins was a fall back depth piece sign to a AAA contract that Elias kept around just in case, and the case happened.