Jorge Mateo

[ChosenOne21]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

You are being hyperbolic.   No one bats .000 if they are a regular.   And whether  a great defensive player plays can depend on whether he is a key part of helping his team win.

Oh, I'd probably bat .000 as a regular 

[Roll Tide]

51 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

Oh, I'd probably bat .000 as a regular 

He’d be a beast if he could figure out a way hit .250 and walk enough to add .75 in OBP

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

You are being hyperbolic.   No one bats .000 if they are a regular.   And whether  a great defensive player plays can depend on whether he is a key part of helping his team win.

No, I’m not being hyperbolic.   Hyde said “any offense we get from Mateo is gravy,” and that’s not true.  There is a level of offense he has to provide to justify playing him, even though he’s a very good defender.  

Don’t get me wrong, Mateo is hitting well enough to justify keeping him in the lineup.   But there’s a level of production south of where he is now where that wouldn’t be the case.  And, I’d be happier if he was hitting a little better.  He’s had an .836 OPS since June 25 (16 games, 14 starts), so hopefully his offense will remain on the upswing.  
 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, I’m not being hyperbolic.   Hyde said “any offense we get from Mateo is gravy,” and that’s not true.  There is a level of offense he has to provide to justify playing him, even though he’s a very good defender.  

Don’t get me wrong, Mateo is hitting well enough to justify keeping him in the lineup.   But there’s a level of production south of where he is now where that wouldn’t be the case.  And, I’d be happier if he was hitting a little better.  He’s had an .836 OPS since June 25 (16 games, 14 starts), so hopefully his offense will remain on the upswing.  
 

You really dislike my boy Mateo:) I get tired of you posting about it:)  it gets so old!:)

 

Palmer said last night, if he could hit .230, that’s all they need. I agree. He looks much much better as of late. Fingers crossed! Huge fan.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

You really dislike my boy Mateo:) I get tired of you posting about it:)  it gets so old!:)

 

Palmer said last night, if he could hit .230, that’s all they need. I agree. He looks much much better as of late. Fingers crossed! Huge fan.

What in my post suggests I dislike Mateo?   

[RZNJ]

Jorge Mateo had a good 0 for 3 last night.   He does look like a different hitter in some respects.   I don't remember him swinging at one really bad pitch last night.   I didn't see him swing and miss by a foot on anything.   In fact, I think he made contact on most, if not all, of his swings.   He just looks like a professional hitter now.   His last AB, the pitcher threw about 3 pitches just under the knees and he didn't offer on one of them and drew a 4-pitch walk.    He's not just super fast.  He's also a strong dude.    We don't need home runs from him but I think he'll wind up with 15 or 20 by accident if he puts the ball in play consistently.    I've been fooled many times before but I'm excited to see what he does the next few weeks and the rest of the season.

[sportsfan8703]

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Jorge Mateo had a good 0 for 3 last night.   He does look like a different hitter in some respects.   I don't remember him swinging at one really bad pitch last night.   I didn't see him swing and miss by a foot on anything.   In fact, I think he made contact on most, if not all, of his swings.   He just looks like a professional hitter now.   His last AB, the pitcher threw about 3 pitches just under the knees and he didn't offer on one of them and drew a 4-pitch walk.    He's not just super fast.  He's also a strong dude.    We don't need home runs from him but I think he'll wind up with 15 or 20 by accident if he puts the ball in play consistently.    I've been fooled many times before but I'm excited to see what he does the next few weeks and the rest of the season.

Mateo could very easily end up with 15 HR, 40 SB, and a GG. Not a bad “floor” for a guy really getting his first full season of starter’s PT at SS in the MLB. 
 

Players can continue to grow. 

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Mateo could very easily end up with 15 HR, 40 SB, and a GG. Not a bad “floor” for a guy really getting his first full season of starter’s PT at SS in the MLB. 
 

Players can continue to grow. 

Agree with all this.   I’m disappointed with his BA/OBP, but he’s providing reasonable value despite those glaring flaws and I have hope he can improve in those areas.   His MiL track record suggests he can do better.  

[spiritof66]

16 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

You really dislike my boy Mateo:) I get tired of you posting about it:)  it gets so old!:)

 

Palmer said last night, if he could hit .230, that’s all they need. I agree. He looks much much better as of late. Fingers crossed! Huge fan.

I would pretty much agree with that: a .230 BA with an OPB around .300. Those numbers would still be way below average among major league shortstops. But I think you could live with that if the offensive production improves from whoever is at second and third base, whether it's from the incumbents, from Henderson or Westburg or Vavra, or from somebody else, or from some combination of the above.

For most of this year, a big problem for the offense -- maybe the biggest problem -- was the lack of production from the bottom 3 or 4 (before Adley or when he's rested) spots in the lineup. I think it would e better to focus on improvement in that from spots other than shortstop (including backup catcher for next season). It also would help to have a decent pinch hitter (preferably a lefty) to hit for Mateo in the late innings). 

One other factor would lead me to live with those kinds of low numbers from Mateo: his singles and walks often turn into the equivalent of doubles. I'm sure there's a way to adjust Mateo's BA and OBP upwards to reflect his success in stealing second, with his caught stealings factored in as failed ABs, when he reaches first with nobody on second, and to use that to derive adjusted numbers for a fair comparison with a batter who never tries to steal. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

10 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I would pretty much agree with that: a .230 BA with an OPB around .300. Those numbers would still be way below average among major league shortstops. But I think you could live with that if the offensive production improves from whoever is at second and third base, whether it's from the incumbents, from Henderson or Westburg or Vavra, or from somebody else, or from some combination of the above.

For most of this year, a big problem for the offense -- maybe the biggest problem -- was the lack of production from the bottom 3 or 4 (before Adley or when he's rested) spots in the lineup. I think it would e better to focus on improvement in that from spots other than shortstop (including backup catcher for next season). It also would help to have a decent pinch hitter (preferably a lefty) to hit for Mateo in the late innings). 

One other factor would lead me to live with those kinds of low numbers from Mateo: his singles and walks often turn into the equivalent of doubles. I'm sure there's a way to adjust Mateo's BA and OBP upwards to reflect his success in stealing second, with his caught stealings factored in as failed ABs, when he reaches first with nobody on second, and to use that to derive adjusted numbers for a fair comparison with a batter who never tries to steal. 

I was just thinking about this and I don't know if it will derail this thread and might need a new one, but how does WAR factor in what you do on the basepaths? I admittedly know nothing about how WAR is calculated, but how much do steals count? Stealing percentage? Going first to third on a single? Not getting caught in dumb rundowns? Tagging up and taking an extra base on a flyout? Percentage of being successful at that?

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

I was just thinking about this and I don't know if it will derail this thread and might need a new one, but how does WAR factor in what you do on the basepaths? I admittedly know nothing about how WAR is calculated, but how much do steals count? Stealing percentage? Going first to third on a single? Not getting caught in dumb rundowns? Tagging up and taking an extra base on a flyout? Percentage of being successful at that?

It all counts.   Remember, a little north of 70% is the break even point on steals.   Taking extra bases on singles and doubles,etc. is all accounted for.  Bb-ref has Mateo’s baserunning at +3 runs, so that’s roughly 0.3 rWAR.  Fangraphs has him at 3.9 runs, so closer to .4 fWAR.

[Bahama O's Fan]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It all counts.   Remember, a little north of 70% is the break even point on steals.   Taking extra bases on singles and doubles,etc. is all accounted for.  Bb-ref has Mateo’s baserunning at +3 runs, so that’s roughly 0.3 rWAR.  Fangraphs has him at 3.9 runs, so closer to .4 fWAR.

Thank you

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

Mateo is heating up!!! New batting stance working!!!! Love him!!!

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

That’s my boy! FIRED UP!!!

[RZNJ]

Mateo is reborn.  He's a professional hitter having professional AB's.  He's spitting on sliders off the corner.  It's beautiful!