Reminder of what Orioles did in August 2012 to try to win a playoff spot.

[Sports Guy]

30 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Gunnar could hit the ground running like Vavra or he could scuffle badly for weeks like Adley. It's a total uncertainty, and nothing Elias has done over the last few years indicates to me that he would sacrifice a pretty decent chance at an extra draft pick for a total uncertainty.

Of course it’s uncertain.  But that doesn’t mean you don’t do it.

[DrungoHazewood]

59 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure what you mean?

I'm just saying he might keep Henderson down in the minors even longer than he kept Adley down to 100% guarantee he won't finish in the top of the RoY voting.

He apparently miscalculated with Adley, understandable considering how well the other rookie were playing to that point.

I think they're going to pull a Don Baylor on him and have him spend 1200 plate appearances in AAA OPSing nearly 1.000.  Just because it's fun to assume the Orioles are going to do nonsensical things.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think they're going to pull a Don Baylor on him and have him spend 1200 plate appearances in AAA OPSing nearly 1.000.  Just because it's fun to assume the Orioles are going to do nonsensical things.

He could have had Grayson start the season in the majors in an attempt for one of the draft picks and didn't.

He chose not to.

He has acted before in a manner that suggests he values the seventh year of team control very highly.

How is that "nonsensical"? 

[MurphDogg]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He could have had Grayson start the season in the majors in an attempt for one of the draft picks and didn't.

He chose not to.

He has acted before in a manner that suggests he values the seventh year of team control very highly.

How is that "nonsensical"? 

Comparing someone who hadn't yet pitched in AAA and pitched over 5 innings in a AA start (not that this is Grayson's fault) with someone who has played half a season at AAA and more than held his own.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

45 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

As an aside, Orioles twitter has to be one of the dumbest places on the internet.  A couple weeks ago I got into a debate about the Machado call up in 2012 when I noted that he was brought up for his defense.  This Maryland Bro was all like "nah man, they brought him up for his bat, lullllzzz" 

So then I linked him to an article where it clearly said he was being brought up for his defense because Wilson Betemit and Mark Reynolds weren't great defenders and he couldn't be bothered to read it.  

Sounds kind of like the MASN comments section. I used to post there during the DD era and people would get mad and downvote you for posting things like platoon splits, home/away splits, 3 year averages, injury history etc. if it made signing Ubaldo Jimenez or Josh Hamilton or whatever other big ticket free agent they REALLY wanted to sign seem like less of a good idea.

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He didn't do it with Grayson.

I've asked before, could he have done it with Adley?

Could he have put Adley on the 40 and 26 man rosters and then put him on the IL?  Was that an option?

Adley and Grayson were both arguably ready at the beginning of the season and were widely expected to arrive this year anyway, while Gunnar was not expected to be ready for another year or two, so I don't think it's an apples to apples situation. No one expected him to steamroll AA and AAA and have nothing meaningful left to prove in the minors by the middle of 2022. He's hitting for average and for power, he's walking at a fairly high rate, and his defense is pretty well-regarded, but he still isn't here despite the fact that we badly need an upgrade in the infield and we're past the point where he could earn a full year of service time or reach Super 2 status. 

Only the rookie status threshold remains, so I don't think it's much of a reach to conclude that that is most likely the hold up.

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Of course it’s uncertain.  But that doesn’t mean you don’t do it.

I don't disagree.

I would have brought him up weeks ago, but I am not in a position to make that decision. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Comparing someone who hadn't yet pitched in AAA and pitched over 5 innings in a AA start (not that this is Grayson's fault) with someone who has played half a season at AAA and more than held his own.

Comparing someone who was the top rated prospect in his category and top 5 overall to someone who was the top rated prospect in his category and top 5 overall.

 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He could have had Grayson start the season in the majors in an attempt for one of the draft picks and didn't.

He chose not to.

He has acted before in a manner that suggests he values the seventh year of team control very highly.

How is that "nonsensical"? 

Rodriguez had 80 innings in AA and zero in AAA, and the Orioles were expecting a 60-something win season.

Henderson is the #1 or #2 prospect in baseball and is tearing up AAA for a team that expects to contend in 2023. 

But, sure, Henderson will be in Norfolk in June of next year even if healthy and and playing very well while the Orioles have a clear and present need for him.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Comparing someone who was the top rated prospect in his category and top 5 overall to someone who was the top rated prospect in his category and top 5 overall.

You know that's nonsense.  Anthony Volpe is the #5 prospect in baseball, Isiah Kiner-Falefa is OPSing .635 and the Yanks are freefalling, so I guess they're idiots for not calling him up?

The April 2022 Rodriguez and April 2023 Henderson situations are very different. You just like being curmudgeonly and hammer this woe is us, the Orioles are intentionally  losing not only right now but also next year narrative.

[eddie83]

Let’s not forget the deadline. You don’t trade away Lopez and Mancini if this year is a priority.  
 

I think Stowers should be on the team but I am also not of the believe that him being here is a huge deal. It’s obvious they are testing out all these guys at 1B so they can have a backup to Mountcastle. Clearly I think Gunnar is a different case. They have already said with their actions the future takes priority.  I expect him up around Sept 1. 
 

My guess is we see both Stowers and Gunnar up at some point. I personally would go ahead and bring Stowers up and send Nevin down and roll the dice concerning no true backup to Ryan. That said the idea from some this was attempt to take at bats away from Ryan was ridiculous. You aren’t throwing someone with limited experience at a position and act like they are going to pick it up overnight. 
 

Westburg I don’t see on the team unless there is an injury. I also don’t think of these guys are brought up they are going to be in the lineup everyday either. As flawed as this team is they are 4 games over .500 in the best division in the sport. Hyde and Elias are not going to bail on players that helped achieve that. 

[MurphDogg]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know that's nonsense.  Anthony Volpe is the #5 prospect in baseball, Isiah Kiner-Falefa is OPSing .635 and the Yanks are freefalling, so I guess they're idiots for not calling him up?

Yep, and the Brewers are idiots for not calling up Jackson Chourio, who Baseball America lists as the #2 prospect. Who cares that he has only played 20 games of High A ball, he is in the top 5 overall and the "top rated prospect in his category".

[Can_of_corn]

20 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know that's nonsense.  Anthony Volpe is the #5 prospect in baseball, Isiah Kiner-Falefa is OPSing .635 and the Yanks are freefalling, so I guess they're idiots for not calling him up?

The April 2022 Rodriguez and April 2023 Henderson situations are very different. You just like being curmudgeonly and hammer this woe is us, the Orioles are intentionally  losing not only right now but also next year narrative.

Kinda beneath you isn't it?

You know I am not saying, or implying, that the O's or Elias are idiots.

And of course another poster picks up the banner you conveniently placed and runs with it.

 

[sportsfan8703]

40 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Kinda beneath you isn't it?

You know I am not saying, or implying, that the O's or Elias are idiots.

And of course another poster picks up the banner you conveniently placed and runs with it.

 

What would our record be if GR and AR started the year in Baltimore?  Apparently not worth the extra year of control. 
 

We started 6-14 this year. We probably won’t start that next year before Gunnar is up. 
 

There’s prospects, then there are AR, GR, and Gunnar. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What would our record be if GR and AR started the year in Baltimore?  Apparently not worth the extra year of control. 
 

We started 6-14 this year. We probably won’t start that next year before Gunnar is up. 
 

There’s prospects, then there are AR, GR, and Gunnar. 

Adley was still injured and still wouldn't have started the season on the active roster.

He would have been up earlier by a couple weeks.

[DrungoHazewood]

54 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Kinda beneath you isn't it?

You know I am not saying, or implying, that the O's or Elias are idiots.

And of course another poster picks up the banner you conveniently placed and runs with it.

 

Perhaps idiots was the wrong term, but you're clearly saying that Elias and Co. are and will continue to prioritize money and control over wins, this year and next.  When you don't have any idea what they're going to do next year and you can't know when they would have called up Rutschman without the injury.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Perhaps idiots was the wrong term, but you're clearly saying that Elias and Co. are and will continue to prioritize money and control over wins, this year and next.  When you don't have any idea what they're going to do next year and you can't know when they would have called up Rutschman without the injury.

I think it is more accurate to say that thus far they have so we shouldn't assume that behavior will change.

To call me out for not having any idea while not calling out everyone stating with certainly that he will be on the roster is a bit strange to me.

At least I'm pointing to past behavior.