It's time to play the players of the future

[casadeozo]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Basically, he’s played half the time.  He’s been up for 27 games, started 12, played in 17.   (Excluding the June series in Toronto in these numbers.)

Interestingly, the team is 8-4 in his 12 starts.  

Aguilar has been here for 16 games and made 7 starts, and entered another game in the second inning.  

Bottom line, you can’t expect Stowers to play every day given the numerous alternatives.  But I’d certainly like him to be getting most of the at bats going to Aguilar.  

 

 

Agreed. I just dont understand why hes up here as a prospect if they are not going to get a good look at what he can do. 

I wish we had some media members that would ask these type of questions.

[Bahama O's Fan]

At this point, all of the rookie hitters should start every game from here on out. Forget the righty/lefty stuff.

[sportsfan8703]

9 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

At this point, all of the rookie hitters should start every game from here on out. Forget the righty/lefty stuff.

That’s not true. I don’t want to go 2-14, and quite frankly Vavra, and Stowers, aren’t worth that risk. I think Westburg should be called up and get in 10+ games somewhere. If you have to demote Vavra to do that then I’m fine. Or we could DFA Aguilar. 
 

The truth of the matter is that we’re too LH right now and that are RH hitters are firmly on the struggle bus. 
 

It’s Westburg time.  Put him at 2B the rest of the season. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

That’s not true. I don’t want to go 2-14, and quite frankly Vavra, and Stowers, aren’t worth that risk. I think Westburg should be called up and get in 10+ games somewhere. If you have to demote Vavra to do that then I’m fine. Or we could DFA Aguilar. 
 

The truth of the matter is that we’re too LH right now and that are RH hitters are firmly on the struggle bus. 
 

It’s Westburg time.  Put him at 2B the rest of the season. 

I don't think we would go 2-14 by playing Vavra and Stowers over Odor, Urias, Aguilar or Hays. I could be wrong, but I would risk it. I don't know how Westburg would produce, but sounds good to me. 

[Brooks The Great]

Time to let Vavra and Stowers play every day. Time to be completely done with Odor, and I think Vavra should play over Urias the rest of the way. Urias is a super utility player. He's not good enough to be a starter on a great team.

Frustrating that Elias and Hyde are so slow to move away from terrible or average veterans (or terrible younger players like Nevin).

[accinfo]

They are not bringing up Westburg and burning a 40 man spot when they don't have to.  They aren't making the playoffs.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by accinfo

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, accinfo said:

They are not bringing up Westburg and burning a 40 man spot when they don't have to.  They aren't making the playoffs.

 

Yeah, there's no way that's happening with only a little more than two weeks to go.

[ScGO's]

Heck, it might be Norby time.

 

 

[jdwilde1]

28 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Time to let Vavra and Stowers play every day. Time to be completely done with Odor, and I think Vavra should play over Urias the rest of the way. Urias is a super utility player. He's not good enough to be a starter on a great team.

Frustrating that Elias and Hyde are so slow to move away from terrible or average veterans (or terrible younger players like Nevin).

I agree with everything you say here except the part about Urias not being good enough to be a starter on a great team.  Urias has a career average of 4.1 WAR and 2.2 WAA per 162 games.  That's not just okay, its really good.  If he continues with that type of production, he absolutely is plenty good enough to start on a great team.  Also, even though his offensive production is down this year, he's still consistently hitting the ball really hard (84th percentile in Hard Hit%).  I just do not see how Urias is the guy holding back the O's from getting to the next level.   With that said, Vavra, Stowers, and Gunnar should be playing every day from here on out, regardless of who is on the mound. 

And I am not saying Urias is a must keep, or that a super utility isn't a reasonable roll for the guy, but over the last two seasons he has demonstrated an ability to play an adequate second base and short stop, and a well above average third base.  I think the real question is not whether Urias is good enough to be a starter on a great team; but rather, are the O's better off with Gunnar at third or short stop.  If Gunnar is at third, Urias loses a lot of his value because he's really an exceptional defensive third baseman, while only an average second baseman, and a below average (albeit acceptable) short stop.  If Gunnar is at short stop, then Urias is plenty good enough to be the starting third baseman. 

[waroriole]

7 hours ago, jdwilde1 said:

I agree with everything you say here except the part about Urias not being good enough to be a starter on a great team.  Urias has a career average of 4.1 WAR and 2.2 WAA per 162 games.  That's not just okay, its really good.  If he continues with that type of production, he absolutely is plenty good enough to start on a great team.  Also, even though his offensive production is down this year, he's still consistently hitting the ball really hard (84th percentile in Hard Hit%).  I just do not see how Urias is the guy holding back the O's from getting to the next level.   With that said, Vavra, Stowers, and Gunnar should be playing every day from here on out, regardless of who is on the mound. 

And I am not saying Urias is a must keep, or that a super utility isn't a reasonable roll for the guy, but over the last two seasons he has demonstrated an ability to play an adequate second base and short stop, and a well above average third base.  I think the real question is not whether Urias is good enough to be a starter on a great team; but rather, are the O's better off with Gunnar at third or short stop.  If Gunnar is at third, Urias loses a lot of his value because he's really an exceptional defensive third baseman, while only an average second baseman, and a below average (albeit acceptable) short stop.  If Gunnar is at short stop, then Urias is plenty good enough to be the starting third baseman. 

I don’t see any reason for both Mateo and Urias to be on next year’s team. Depending on where Gunnar plays, one of those guys should be moved. 

[Sports Guy]

 

[Spy Fox]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

 

I was just looking at the lineup wondering if this was the first series all year where Odor didn't start a game.

[Brooks The Great]

On 9/20/2022 at 11:42 PM, jdwilde1 said:

I agree with everything you say here except the part about Urias not being good enough to be a starter on a great team.  Urias has a career average of 4.1 WAR and 2.2 WAA per 162 games.  That's not just okay, its really good.  If he continues with that type of production, he absolutely is plenty good enough to start on a great team.  Also, even though his offensive production is down this year, he's still consistently hitting the ball really hard (84th percentile in Hard Hit%).  I just do not see how Urias is the guy holding back the O's from getting to the next level.   With that said, Vavra, Stowers, and Gunnar should be playing every day from here on out, regardless of who is on the mound. 

And I am not saying Urias is a must keep, or that a super utility isn't a reasonable roll for the guy, but over the last two seasons he has demonstrated an ability to play an adequate second base and short stop, and a well above average third base.  I think the real question is not whether Urias is good enough to be a starter on a great team; but rather, are the O's better off with Gunnar at third or short stop.  If Gunnar is at third, Urias loses a lot of his value because he's really an exceptional defensive third baseman, while only an average second baseman, and a below average (albeit acceptable) short stop.  If Gunnar is at short stop, then Urias is plenty good enough to be the starting third baseman. 

For me it's pretty simple (although I very well could be wrong). Starting next season, Joey Ortiz is going to be a viable starting SS option, and he's going to be better than Jorge Mateo in terms of overall value (because Ortiz is a premium glove, and it won't be hard for Ortiz to be a better hitter than Mateo, because Mateo is an awful hitter). Our best starting lineup on both sides of the ball is going to have Gunnar at 3B and Ortiz at SS.

At 2B, I believe both Westburg and Norby will be superior options to Urias. Urias isn't good enough to be blocking prospects like either of them. So the upcoming tidal wave of middle infield talent leaves Urias as a super utility player, which is what I think Urias' best role for the Orioles is anyway. If Urias is your super utility player off the bench (and starting regularly only in case of an injury to one of the young IFs), you're a playoff team. If Urias is your starting 2B, 3B, or SS, you're most likely a .500ish team or worse.

I like Urias, but I think he's really overrated by a lot of people on this board. We have several players coming up over the next couple years who will very likely be more productive/talented/valuable.

[Sports Guy]

How is Urias overrated?

In 210 games with the Os, he has a 5.2 bWAR and 3.2 fWAR. I believe his fWAR is more representative of him.  That shows a good player.  Someone who is solid when making no money.

Who on here acts like he is more than that?  He, like Mateo, can start for a contending team.  But there are other factors in place for them.

[wildcard]

8 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

For me it's pretty simple (although I very well could be wrong). Starting next season, Joey Ortiz is going to be a viable starting SS option, and he's going to be better than Jorge Mateo in terms of overall value (because Ortiz is a premium glove, and it won't be hard for Ortiz to be a better hitter than Mateo, because Mateo is an awful hitter). Our best starting lineup on both sides of the ball is going to have Gunnar at 3B and Ortiz at SS.

At 2B, I believe both Westburg and Norby will be superior options to Urias. Urias isn't good enough to be blocking prospects like either of them. So the upcoming tidal wave of middle infield talent leaves Urias as a super utility player, which is what I think Urias' best role for the Orioles is anyway. If Urias is your super utility player off the bench (and starting regularly only in case of an injury to one of the young IFs), you're a playoff team. If Urias is your starting 2B, 3B, or SS, you're most likely a .500ish team or worse.

I like Urias, but I think he's really overrated by a lot of people on this board. We have several players coming up over the next couple years who will very likely be more productive/talented/valuable.

I don't think its simple at all.