“Liftoff - Perhaps a Bit Misunderstood “

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Let's take it down a notch.

It's been pointed out that the budget increase will be likely spent on arbitration cases.  

I don't believe what I'm reading here.  We've got guys like Adley, Gunnar, G-Rod and a lot of other prospects that look like they could contribute, we've finally made inroads into the Dominican and look to have a strong presence there, we just won WAY more games this past season than anyone thought we were going to and people are UPSET BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY IN FREE AGENCY.

 

If they add a mid level arm and a legit bat I think that will appease most people.  I don’t think any of the fans who really follow and understand the sport expected more.  They need to add though. 
 

I think people are panicking because names keep going off the board. 

[geschinger]

13 minutes ago, deward said:

I just want them to take advantage of this payroll flexibility Elias keeps talking about to make the team better. A Verlander-style trade is fine by me (worth noting that Verlander stuck around for five years, so that didn't turn out to be very short term). 

I think for the Astros and likely for the Orioles now payroll flexibility is something they see as important to continue to have.  The Astros never had at any time more than a 2 year commitment to JV.  

Using payroll flexibility today while having it for the future would be short term deals at a higher AAV which typically is not what the top FAs are looking for - they want longer term deals.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, eddie83 said:

If they add a mid level arm and a legit bat I think that will appease most people.  I don’t think any of the fans who really follow and understand the sport expected more.  They need to add though. 
 

I think people are panicking because names keep going off the board. 

Correct, people are panicking because names are flying off the board.  This year seems like it's more active in early December than in years past, but maybe that's just me.

I agree, they need to add but I've always felt that Elias is also willing to sit tight and roll into the 2023 season with a lot of the same pieces he ended 2022 with.  There won't be Odor, thankfully, but I would not be surprised if we pick up a mid-tier rotation piece and call it a day for the offseason.  

Everyone here needs to realize that it's a distinct possibility that we start 2023 with a team that strongly resembles last year team with Elias banking on that Adley and Gunnar are going to produce at a higher level, G-Rod will represent the rotation upgrade and any promotions of guys like Westburg and Ortiz are going to be shots in the arm when we trade someone like Mateo and/or Urias at the deadline.

 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Let's take it down a notch.

It's been pointed out that the budget increase will be likely spent on arbitration cases.  

I don't believe what I'm reading here.  We've got guys like Adley, Gunnar, G-Rod and a lot of other prospects that look like they could contribute, we've finally made inroads into the Dominican and look to have a strong presence there, we just won WAY more games this past season than anyone thought we were going to and people are UPSET BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY IN FREE AGENCY.

 

I can't speak for "people" but I am. Why should any fan continue to accept a "lowered bar" for this organization? I'm glad that they have done the things that you have mentioned, but it's time to get it right all the way. Otherwise the puzzle will still be incomplete and we will still be at a competitive disadvantage. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

I can't speak for "people" but I am. Why should any fan continue to accept a "lowered bar" for this organization? I'm glad that they have done the things that you have mentioned, but it's time to get it right all the way. Otherwise the puzzle will still be incomplete and we will still be at a competitive disadvantage. 

Who's accepting a lower bar?  Is this team still losing?  Are they not finally drafting and developing the right way?

This franchise in many respects is way, way different than where it was in 2018 and 2019.  It's practically a night and day difference.  

Then again, this message board has always had a borderline kinky obsession with free agency.  I'm pretty confident we can still win and still win big without having to bring in big name free agents.

You guys are like kids who are begging their mom to take them to McDonald's and the mom is like "We have food at home."

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

If they add a mid level arm and a legit bat I think that will appease most people.  I don’t think any of the fans who really follow and understand the sport expected more.  They need to add though. 
 

I think people are panicking because names keep going off the board. 

I'm not panicking. I'm just simply watching. At the end of the day, the Orioles actions NOT their words will speak the most. 

Right now their actions say, profits are more important to us than winning. That could easily change with a few significants adds.

I'm curious what you consider "a mid level arm"? Because if you are talking Manaea type. How does that really help us get good enough to get into the playoffs? Who are we leapfrogging with that kind of addition?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who's accepting a lower bar?  Is this team still losing?  Are they not finally drafting and developing the right way?

This franchise in many respects is way, way different than where it was in 2018 and 2019.  It's practically a night and day difference.  

Then again, this message board has always had a borderline kinky obsession with free agency.  I'm pretty confident we can still win and still win big without having to bring in big name free agents.

You guys are like kids who are begging their mom to take them to McDonald's and the mom is like "We have food at home."

Ha ha ... That analogy is a good one! Made me laugh  

If the Orioles don't make any significant additions, how in your estimation do we leapfrog any of the playoff teams from last year? Yes, we will have a whole season of Adley and Gunnar and hopefully a big contribution by Grayson. But do you believe tat it is a reasonable bet that everyone else in the rotation and bullpen will perform the same or better?

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Correct, people are panicking because names are flying off the board.  This year seems like it's more active in early December than in years past, but maybe that's just me.

I agree, they need to add but I've always felt that Elias is also willing to sit tight and roll into the 2023 season with a lot of the same pieces he ended 2022 with.  There won't be Odor, thankfully, but I would not be surprised if we pick up a mid-tier rotation piece and call it a day for the offseason.  

Everyone here needs to realize that it's a distinct possibility that we start 2023 with a team that strongly resembles last year team with Elias banking on that Adley and Gunnar are going to produce at a higher level, G-Rod will represent the rotation upgrade and any promotions of guys like Westburg and Ortiz are going to be shots in the arm when we trade someone like Mateo and/or Urias at the deadline.

 

The thing is he can add without subtracting if he wants. 

 

I think he will add an arm. Who? Not sure. If he signs a Wacha or Quintana and people are ticked about it now but in mid July throwing well nobody will mind. 
 

I don’t get the idea myself of not adding a bat and I am not referring to Mazara. 
 

At the end of the day it’s still early. I just think they need to be at least a 3rd place team in this division which will not be easy. I don’t love TB’s lineup but as always they can pitch and I’m sure Rays Hangout is hoping for Lowe and Franco to have better health next year. I think banking on Grayson to be the savior of the rotation is a mistake. That is not a knock on him either. 

[Hank Scorpio]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Correct, people are panicking because names are flying off the board.  This year seems like it's more active in early December than in years past, but maybe that's just me.

I agree, they need to add but I've always felt that Elias is also willing to sit tight and roll into the 2023 season with a lot of the same pieces he ended 2022 with.  There won't be Odor, thankfully, but I would not be surprised if we pick up a mid-tier rotation piece and call it a day for the offseason.  

Everyone here needs to realize that it's a distinct possibility that we start 2023 with a team that strongly resembles last year team with Elias banking on that Adley and Gunnar are going to produce at a higher level, G-Rod will represent the rotation upgrade and any promotions of guys like Westburg and Ortiz are going to be shots in the arm when we trade someone like Mateo and/or Urias at the deadline.

 

Winner... 

Although I do think maybe we see a trade or two as well. There are lots of options on that front. There are always going to be people who can't wait to piss and moan about the Angelos' holding this team back, etc... and I'm sure there is *some* truth to that. Certainly there has been historically.

But we didn't get to this point by handing out 9 year deals. 

Trust the GM, he's a smart guy.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Ha ha ... That analogy is a good one! Made me laugh  

If the Orioles don't make any significant additions, how in your estimation do we leapfrog any of the playoff teams from last year? Yes, we will have a whole season of Adley and Gunnar and hopefully a big contribution by Grayson. But do you believe tat it is a reasonable bet that everyone else in the rotation and bullpen will perform the same or better?

Well if we look at the bullpen last year, a lot of those pickups weren't considered sexy or big name free agents.  And they performed really well.  

I think we're going to leapfrog playoff teams in a couple of ways: first, the balanced schedule, we have more games against creampuff teams like the Pirates, Cubs, Marlins, Reds, A's, Royals, etc.  We should be able to pick up more wins against teams like that.  The season isn't a grinder against the AL East teams anymore.

Second, yeah, we should be better with full seasons from Adley, Gunnar, G-Rod, Hall, etc.  

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we spent money on a guy like Rodon for the rotation.  Or Bassit.  I would have been alright with Taillon.  I'm not really enthusiastic about Gibson.

Yeah, it's more fun and exciting when you're reeling in big name free agents but that hasn't been the case for the Orioles for a long time.  I don't expect that to change anytime soon.  That said, I'd much rather be producing guys like Adley, Gunnar, G-Rod, etc.

 

[deward]

4 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Winner... 

Although I do think maybe we see a trade or two as well. There are lots of options on that front. There are always going to be people who can't wait to piss and moan about the Angelos' holding this team back, etc... and I'm sure there is *some* truth to that. Certainly there has been historically.

But we didn't get to this point by handing out 9 year deals. 

Trust the GM, he's a smart guy.

Everything Elias has done up to this point falls within his wheelhouse of previous expertise. THIS part does not. I think it's fair to withhold judgement and harbor some concerns until we see the full off-season plan play out.

Isn't pissing and moaning the entire reason to have an internet message board? 

[Jim'sKid26]

Free agent signings are sexier than trades. The irony of that is the big website that splashes the FA signings is call mlbTRADErumors.com. 

 

[RZNJ]

The Yankees, Rays, Jays, and Red Sox get more games against the cream puffs too.  I don’t see how that helps us leapfrog them.

[eddie83]

25 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I'm not panicking. I'm just simply watching. At the end of the day, the Orioles actions NOT their words will speak the most. 

Right now their actions say, profits are more important to us than winning. That could easily change with a few significants adds.

I'm curious what you consider "a mid level arm"? Because if you are talking Manaea type. How does that really help us get good enough to get into the playoffs? Who are we leapfrogging with that kind of addition?

I came into this off-season optimistic and realistic. I never will expect a massive FA deal for an arm from this team. I do think they would be willing to make a Verlander type trade. I would not expect them to retain someone for years after like Houston did. 
 

I am not in love with Manaea but he has a resume and a K rate that can work. The HR ball killed him last year. Camden should help. I may be wrong but I just don’t recall years ago seeing pitchers improve and at times resurrect their careers like we see now. Clearly analytics have impacted pitching at a high level. This club has little to no proven experience. They need a arm. I never expected one of the big boys. Yes, I do think Manaea is an example of mid level. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by eddie83

[deward]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well if we look at the bullpen last year, a lot of those pickups weren't considered sexy or big name free agents.  And they performed really well.  

I think we're going to leapfrog playoff teams in a couple of ways: first, the balanced schedule, we have more games against creampuff teams like the Pirates, Cubs, Marlins, Reds, A's, Royals, etc.  We should be able to pick up more wins against teams like that.  The season isn't a grinder against the AL East teams anymore.

Second, yeah, we should be better with full seasons from Adley, Gunnar, G-Rod, Hall, etc.  

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we spent money on a guy like Rodon for the rotation.  Or Bassit.  I would have been alright with Taillon.  I'm not really enthusiastic about Gibson.

Yeah, it's more fun and exciting when you're reeling in big name free agents but that hasn't been the case for the Orioles for a long time.  I don't expect that to change anytime soon.  That said, I'd much rather be producing guys like Adley, Gunnar, G-Rod, etc.

 

My problems with just running back the same team are:

1) Sophomore slumps are a thing sometimes

2) You can never count on pitching prospects, even great ones

3) It's probably unrealistic to expect every rookie to have a dramatic impact. Planning on Westburg/Ortiz/Cowser to come up and immediately set the world on fire is probably a mistake.

4) The biggest one - I'm concerned that Kremer/Voth/Bradish pitched over their heads last year

A lot of things went right to end up with the record they did in 2022, counting on it to all go right again seems like a mistake.