The warning signs are there for the reading

[MDtransplant757]

If you're the Orioles and Elias, you've invested in scouting. What would you rather have as fans, someone who outbids for pitching help and shells out a ton of money which leaves us cash strapped for the future, or do you trade excess of what you have for what you need? We can trade Hays and Santander for pitching. Hays has 4 years of control left and Santander has 3 years of control left, for two above average outfielders. We can get creative with packages depending on the return. Personally I'd rather do that and trade off excess goods for pitching rather than sign free agents. 

[Slight Upward Arc]

2 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

If you're the Orioles and Elias, you've invested in scouting. What would you rather have as fans, someone who outbids for pitching help and shells out a ton of money which leaves us cash strapped for the future, or do you trade excess of what you have for what you need? We can trade Hays and Santander for pitching. Hays has 4 years of control left and Santander has 3 years of control left, for two above average outfielders. We can get creative with packages depending on the return. Personally I'd rather do that and trade off excess goods for pitching rather than sign free agents. 

Either/or here is a big fallacy.

[Yardball85]

2 minutes ago, Slight Upward Arc said:

Either/or here is a big fallacy.

Right.  There is no good reason you cannot  do both to build a good team. 

[owknows]

Just now, Yardball85 said:

Right.  There is no good reason you cannot  do both to build a good team. 

Nor is there a specific reason you cannot do one or the other to build a good team.

 

[MDtransplant757]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

Nor is there a specific reason you cannot do one or the other to build a good team.

 

Oh you can most certainly do both. The main point I was getting at is that if you're in a budget crunch, then what do you do?

[Slight Upward Arc]

Just now, MDtransplant757 said:

Oh you can most certainly do both. The main point I was getting at is that if you're in a budget crunch, then what do you do?

I still reject the premise, but fair enough. The good he’s done basically across the board, with the exception of caring at all about present day can’t really be debated. 

[Yardball85]

10 minutes ago, owknows said:

Nor is there a specific reason you cannot do one or the other to build a good team.

 

That's where we disagree.  But it's not worth getting into it any further. 

[Spy Fox]

14 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

If you're the Orioles and Elias, you've invested in scouting. What would you rather have as fans, someone who outbids for pitching help and shells out a ton of money which leaves us cash strapped for the future, or do you trade excess of what you have for what you need? We can trade Hays and Santander for pitching. Hays has 4 years of control left and Santander has 3 years of control left, for two above average outfielders. We can get creative with packages depending on the return. Personally I'd rather do that and trade off excess goods for pitching rather than sign free agents. 

Just clarifying, it's 3 years for Hays and 2 for Santander. When they say "Free Agent: 2026" it means 2025 is the last year under control. 

But I agree that I've not fully lost hope for a productive offseason. I wish we had done more so far on the FA market and I think it's clear budget shyness is a main reason why we are standing still, which is frustrating. But our position player talent is so deep that we still have a lot of options via trade. 

[MDtransplant757]

8 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Just clarifying, it's 3 years for Hays and 2 for Santander. When they say "Free Agent: 2026" it means 2025 is the last year under control. 

But I agree that I've not fully lost hope for a productive offseason. I wish we had done more so far on the FA market and I think it's clear budget shyness is a main reason why we are standing still, which is frustrating. But our position player talent is so deep that we still have a lot of options via trade. 

Thank you for clarifying. Tampa does the same thing, which isn't a bad thing. If you can get a good return then I'd say go for it. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I'm just saying, if we were to sign Rodon (we obviously won't, but let's pretend it's possible for a second), it would be pretty damn hypocritical if I were to suddenly cheer for it just because "hurr durr, we spent da moneys!"

So I'll continue b*tching about it if Elias shocks the entire world and signs him.

It'd be nice to see them spend money.  Even if 7/210 for Rodon is absurd, it'd be nice to see them actually going for it.  It'd erase a lot of the thoughts here about that Elias isn't allowed to spend money.

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I have been consistently and intensely anti-Rodon since the very start so in the ludicrously unlikely event that Elias completely reverses course and signs him to a massive long-term contract, I reserve the right to criticize the move as much as I want.

Why are you so anti- Rodon?

A lefty that has thrown two 5.+ WARs, cant be all that bad.

No FA pitcher is worth what they are getting in the market.

 

[Explosivo]

21 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

None of us wants to think the worse. Even after all these years of being a fan of an Angelos-family owned team, not one of us wants to think that the Orioles are not going to spend. 

Unfortunately, there are a few too many yellow flags and the Orioles losing out on Chris Bassitt on a 3-year contract to Division rival (Blue Jays) should make fans take heed of the warning signs.

We know that John Angelos is currently calling the shots, but we also know that he and his mother are being sued by his brother Louis.

We then add in Mike Elias talking back his comment about "taking off", and the fact he no longer is talking about the Orioles adding significant payroll. 

Now, do all of these add up to an absolute red flag that says the Orioles are not going to sign a significant starting pitcher to a multi-year contract, no, but the signs sure do start to point towards the same 'ol same 'ol for the Orioles when it comes to adding good free agent talent.

Now could they still be able to add significant payroll by trading for that starting pitcher, sure. Is the off season over, nope. 

But watching another Division rival get better while the Orioles treadwater in December is certainly more of the same and doesn't make me feel good at all as an Orioles fan.

And yet we got Kyle Gibson who also looked at either us or Toronto and chose us. 
 

I think the Orioles just need to do more with their young prospects to convince pitchers taking their last contracts on where to sign.

[Emory Eagle]

Rodon’s injury history is scary, and I think justifies skepticism about a long term deal.  Also, not sure the Os roster is otherwise close enough to contention to justify an overpay along the lines of what Rodon will get.  

[Emory Eagle]

Just now, Emory Eagle said:

Rodon’s injury history is scary, and I think justifies skepticism about a long term deal.  Also, not sure the Os roster is otherwise close enough to contention to justify an overpay along the lines of what Rodon will get.  

All that said I’d be thrilled if they somehow sign him. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

14 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Why are you so anti- Rodon?

A lefty that has thrown two 5.+ WARs, cant be all that bad.

No FA pitcher is worth what they are getting in the market.

 

2022 was the very first time Rodon has ever been sturdy enough to reach 30 starts in a season.

He debuted in 2015.

16 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It'd be nice to see them spend money.  Even if 7/210 for Rodon is absurd, it'd be nice to see them actually going for it.  It'd erase a lot of the thoughts here about that Elias isn't allowed to spend money.

I get that thinking, but the same could have been said of the Davis contract.

Rodon just ain't the guy to take that gamble on, IMO.