Orioles pursuing Wacha?

[Yardball85]

26 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Who did you guys expect the Orioles to sign this off-season? We’re just starting to see sunlight from a demo and gut rebuild. We were never going to give out 30 mill a year contracts. Guys like Wacha and Gibson are solid pieces to add for a season or 2. 
 

Maybe the team is high on Wells, Bradish and Kremer. 

Who did we expect them to sign?  Better players to supplement the young core so they can win.  Eovaldi would not take a $30M contract. 

[Yardball85]

21 minutes ago, Slight Upward Arc said:

I expected liftoff when he promised fans that’d be the case after selling on the team last trade deadline. Instead we’re allegedly getting a slight upward arc, so far in the way of Kyle Gibson. There really is no defense for not trying to improve this teams chances this season. What Elias has told us is that they aren’t there yet. Again. So we’ll just keep waiting. 

Yup.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Even if they sign Wacha, how do we know that's not a precursor to a trade involving Bradish, Kremer, Wells, Hall or whomever for a bigger fish (no punAlso, even intended)?

We don’t but I don’t think it’s likely.

Elias said he would add 1-2 starters. Things can always change but I tend to doubt it and that any hope for that would just be grasping at straws.

 

[Just Regular]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He said a #1-#3 so I expected a #4 he could pass off as a 3.

I think Grayson's 2023 has a good shot to fall into that grey area of metaphysics around what a #1 starter in a 30-team league is.     Do you have to be a Cy Young contender or just one of the 30 best guys?

Of last year's 100 IP throwers in K-BB, Zach Wheeler was 16th, no one would argue with his credentials.

23rd George Kirby  -   a nice barometer for Grayson to chase, a cause for celebration if he can make Kirby look as puny as Adley made Bobby Witt look last year.

30th Charlie Morton

38th Nate Eovaldi

Probably an oversell to call Eovaldi "an elite #2", but the cleanest single metric I know puts him there by 2022 results.      Wacha's just in the middle, far above almost all the Orioles big inning guys.

[Bemorewins]

36 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Who did you guys expect the Orioles to sign this off-season? We’re just starting to see sunlight from a demo and gut rebuild. We were never going to give out 30 mill a year contracts. Guys like Wacha and Gibson are solid pieces to add for a season or 2. 
 

Maybe the team is high on Wells, Bradish and Kremer. 

Wait, I want to understand this correctly.

Do you suggest signing Gibson and Wacha for potentially 2 seasons?

Does that mean that you want half of Adley Rutchsman’s 6 years to be spent on a team with players like this anchoring the Orioles rotation? 
 

What odds would you give the O’s in terms of winning a World Series with this approach? Or is that not the goal?

[interloper]

I think we're losing sight of the fact that literally every other starter the Orioles have been linked to this off-season has signed elsewhere. 

So there's a lot of putting the cart before the horse here with Wacha. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by interloper

[jabba72]

For a one or 2 year deal Wacha will probably get you close to the production of Taillon in those two years. So from that angle its fine even if its not an exciting sign. 

 

[Bemorewins]

35 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Of course, we are all talking as if Wacha has been signed.   He hasn't.   A rumor that the Orioles are interested.   I would be disappointed if we came away with Gibson and Wacha.    Neither is a #1-#3 pitcher as Elias stated.    They may have been, particularly Wacha, at one time.

Still, it's remarkable how much venom is directed at ownership and Elias when the other shoes hasn't even dropped yet.

Huh?

It’s almost like you are suggesting for fans to give them the benefit of the doubt.

In your opinion, why do they deserve that? What have they done, other than a total tear down (which cost them nothing) that gives you confidence in their competence. 
 

I know that we all want to believe that Elias is awesome (and I hope that he is for our sakes). But with him backtracking on his original comments that he made multiple times, either he made a major misstep and misspoke (which would cause me to question his competence since he repeated it on several different occasions) or there is some restraint being placed on him by ownership and the disconnect lies there. Either way I don’t fault any fan, observing these things (especially given this org’s history) if they have or express concerns.

[Just Regular]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Does that mean that you want half of Adley Rutchsman’s 6 years to be spent on a team with players like this anchoring the Orioles rotation? 

More like insulating.    All the upside drivers of the peak Adley teams are already here - the Christmas tree is beautiful.     This is just buying the stand.    Kluber would be fine too, but I believe he's more likely to fall down than Wacha.

For me when you have a Stars and Scrubs roster, its a basic inference the bottom of the roster is where gains flow more organically.     Several 2022 Orioles incumbent pitchers are obvious candidates to be 2023 replacement level killers.

Jordan Westburg and Kyle Stowers performing like "losing MLB players" for a little while is at least understandable.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

50 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

Who did you guys expect the Orioles to sign this off-season? We’re just starting to see sunlight from a demo and gut rebuild. We were never going to give out 30 mill a year contracts. Guys like Wacha and Gibson are solid pieces to add for a season or 2. 
 

Maybe the team is high on Wells, Bradish and Kremer. 

The "$30 million a year contract" thing is a blatantly dishonest strawman. Many of us, myself included, were simply advocating for mid-tier free agent starters like Bassitt, Quintana, and Walker, which was perfectly reasonable based on Elias's own comments about adding a #1-3 starter, which guys like Gibson and Wacha obviously do not qualify as.

[HakunaSakata]

48 minutes ago, Slight Upward Arc said:

I expected liftoff when he promised fans that’d be the case after selling on the team last trade deadline. Instead we’re allegedly getting a slight upward arc, so far in the way of Kyle Gibson. There really is no defense for not trying to improve this teams chances this season. What Elias has told us is that they aren’t there yet. Again. So we’ll just keep waiting. 

What bothers me is that we are there in the sense that the service time clock is now ticking for some of the major pieces of our rebuild. And ownership seems perfectly content to waste one of those years by surrounding our core with floundering JAGs  like Gibson and possibly Wacha instead of legitimately good pitchers who could actually make the team better. I completely get them being hesitant to give out longer term contracts, but not targeting Verlander and/or Bassitt in particular makes no sense other than the fact that they're too cheap to pay for actual value. 

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Huh?

It’s almost like you are suggesting for fans to give them the benefit of the doubt.

In your opinion, why do they deserve that? What have they done, other than a total tear down (which cost them nothing) that gives you confidence in their competence. 
 

I know that we all want to believe that Elias is awesome (and I hope that he is for our sakes). But with him backtracking on his original comments that he made multiple times, either he made a major misstep and misspoke (which would cause me to question his competence since he repeated it on several different occasions) or there is some restraint being placed on him by ownership and the disconnect lies there. Either way I don’t fault any fan, observing these things (especially given this org’s history) if they have or express concerns.

They tore the team down.  They built an A+ farm system.   They put together a young team that surprised last year with 83 wins.  They've done things the right way as far as the farm system and infrastructure for procuring and developing talent goes.   They seem genuinely interested in building something that will last.   Yep.   I give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think we're losing sight of the fact that literally every other starter the Orioles have been linked to this off-season has signed elsewhere. 

So there's a lot of putting the cart before the horse here with Wacha. 

Well, if it’s true, I have an issue that they are even targeting him. Makes me question what methods they are using to determine upgrades.

And it would make me question Elias’ ability to judge the market. I may not want him but if they do and they fail again, that’s also an issue.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sports Guy

[DrinkinWithFermi]

30 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think we're losing sight of the fact that literally every other starter the Orioles have been linked to this off-season has signed elsewhere. 

So there's a lot of putting the cart before the horse here with Wacha. 

Stupid Confederate money...

[Too Tall]

It's December 15th. "It ain't over till it's over." But in my opinion, there is a dichotomy somewhere if one reads the thread about the lawsuit, and then views"liftoff" as meaning big spending. OK, so perhaps we should criticize Elias for a poor choice of words. He had the audacity to get our hopes up after a team we all picked for last place played pretty darn good. Heck there have been threads wanting to give Elais and Sig raises - afraid we'd lose them. A fear by the way I can agree with! I remember a lot of past wishes on this site for the kind of operational quality Elias & Co. HAVE given us.

In my opinion, the Orioles (as an organization) are what the Orioles are until they are sold. A messed-up ownership group and a state-of-the-art operational group. So, we can only WISH/HOPE for better ownership. There are risks however with all changes. I believe Elias and Co. IF they hang around will do their best given all the "givens." And IF we get Wacha, I'm not going to feel like someone put coal in my stocking instead of the nice new bike I asked for. My biggest WISH is that many of you had the Oriole Memories I have.  Those memories help sustain me. It's been a long time since 1983. I hear your frustration and sincerely hope in your lifetime, you will eventually get to experience the long run of a quality team with a World Series here and there like I did from the mid '60's to '83.

Till then, HAPPY HOLIDAYS! I'm looking forward to 2023 even with all the "givens."