Baseball America 2023 Top 100

[SemperFi]

3 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

In the last year, the team has improved it's win total by 31 games, graduated multiple high end prospects who saw early success, significantly added to it's well stocked farm system, and saw basically all of its most important prospects progress throughout the system.

Such good progress for a rebuild, and by page 5 of the thread about BA publishing this, it's literally just a full page of posts from people complaining that we signed a veteran 2B to a 1 year deal and/or we didn't win a bidding war for a good but potentially flawed #2-#3 SP. So much fixation on the negatives when it just seems like they're so far outweighed by the positives with where this org is in terms of entering a long-term winning window; it just blows my mind 

Quite right, to quote JA "you people are obviously not forward thinking enough"

[eddie83]

It doesn’t bother me the Orioles are promoting this. Any organization would. Of course I am also not bothered by Frazier. 
 

Short of a significant upgrade to the 23 team anything the Orioles say or do right now is going to be nitpicked by some. They put a target on themselves, or specifically John Angelos did. 

[MouncastleandMcCormick]

I recommend the accompanying podcast:  https://player.fm/series/baseball-america-2150939/ep-2023-baseball-america-top-100-prospects-podcast  Best Orioles talk is 30 min in, when they turn to Holliday.  In short:

- all the projectability you could ask for

- showed signs of being #1 prior to the draft and only confirmed those takes since

- BA has more faith in him reaching ceiling because he is with Baltimore

- Likely #1 prospect this time next year (would be first time with a team having three different #1s in consecutive years)

- "is going to be a monster"

- Not sure I heard this before, but only once since 1990 did one team have back-to-back #1s with different players before this year (Drew and Ankiel)

 

Elsewhere in the podcast, discussed typical Gunnar things and without saying it directly, they have Grayson behind Painter because Painter has already carried the load of total innings per season and has his share of 6- and 7-inning starts.  Grayson has the highly-graded pitches and is favored by some front offices.

They credit the Os for good drafting and development, but heap praise upon the more difficult task the Dodgers have done in having the third-most Top 100, guys while also being annual pennant favorites.  Something to aspire to.

[sportsfan8703]

16 minutes ago, MouncastleandMcCormick said:

I recommend the accompanying podcast:  https://player.fm/series/baseball-america-2150939/ep-2023-baseball-america-top-100-prospects-podcast  Best Orioles talk is 30 min in, when they turn to Holliday.  In short:

- all the projectability you could ask for

- showed signs of being #1 prior to the draft and only confirmed those takes since

- BA has more faith in him reaching ceiling because he is with Baltimore

- Likely #1 prospect this time next year (would be first time with a team having three different #1s in consecutive years)

- "is going to be a monster"

- Not sure I heard this before, but only once since 1990 did one team have back-to-back #1s with different players before this year (Drew and Ankiel)

 

Elsewhere in the podcast, discussed typical Gunnar things and without saying it directly, they have Grayson behind Painter because Painter has already carried the load of total innings per season and has his share of 6- and 7-inning starts.  Grayson has the highly-graded pitches and is favored by some front offices.

They credit the Os for good drafting and development, but heap praise upon the more difficult task the Dodgers have done in having the third-most Top 100, guys while also being annual pennant favorites.  Something to aspire to.

Just think how close GR was to being #1?  
 

It’ll be interesting to see how we keep the talent pipeline going.  Elias pulled off a trade for a comp pick out of nowhere last ST. Something like that would definitely help this year to help offset having a smaller draft pool.  It seems like Perez has finally gotten us back to respectability in the Latin market, but it seems we’re still not close to landing a top 5/10 class down there. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

It doesn’t bother me the Orioles are promoting this. Any organization would. Of course I am also not bothered by Frazier. 
 

Short of a significant upgrade to the 23 team anything the Orioles say or do right now is going to be nitpicked by some. They put a target on themselves, or specifically John Angelos did. 

To be clear, I have zero issue with them promoting this. I agree that they should.

My issue isn’t that they are celebrating that, it’s that they seem to place that about winning at the ML level. Every chance they get, they remind the fan base of this. They want to be patted on the back for it. They want people to say, wow look at how you have turned things around so fast (even though it’s being done in the right time line imo).

 

[foxfield]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

To be clear, I have zero issue with them promoting this. I agree that they should.

My issue isn’t that they are celebrating that, it’s that they seem to place that about winning at the ML level. Every chance they get, they remind the fan base of this. They want to be patted on the back for it. They want people to say, wow look at how you have turned things around so fast (even though it’s being done in the right time line imo).

 

Yeah. Honestly I don’t get it either. Why can’t they just say:

We had the worst record in baseball with the worst farm system in baseball just a few years ago. We’re still owned by the worst ownership in the history of baseball and we’re still in last place in the AL East, but hey we have kids. They’re pretty good. 
 

I mean how hard should it be to get some smart sporty guy to write Twitter stuff. 

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, MouncastleandMcCormick said:

I recommend the accompanying podcast:  https://player.fm/series/baseball-america-2150939/ep-2023-baseball-america-top-100-prospects-podcast  Best Orioles talk is 30 min in, when they turn to Holliday.  In short:

- all the projectability you could ask for

- showed signs of being #1 prior to the draft and only confirmed those takes since

- BA has more faith in him reaching ceiling because he is with Baltimore

- Likely #1 prospect this time next year (would be first time with a team having three different #1s in consecutive years)

- "is going to be a monster"

- Not sure I heard this before, but only once since 1990 did one team have back-to-back #1s with different players before this year (Drew and Ankiel)

 

Elsewhere in the podcast, discussed typical Gunnar things and without saying it directly, they have Grayson behind Painter because Painter has already carried the load of total innings per season and has his share of 6- and 7-inning starts.  Grayson has the highly-graded pitches and is favored by some front offices.

They credit the Os for good drafting and development, but heap praise upon the more difficult task the Dodgers have done in having the third-most Top 100, guys while also being annual pennant favorites.  Something to aspire to.

He was the only other choice for the first pick, along with Jones.  I’m glad they went with who they did and Holliday made sense over Jones if they are completely sure he sticks at SS. 

All the talk of the other guys they could take was always cringey to me.

And then Jones hurting his shoulder I think pushed Holliday up more in people’s eyes.  They saw him come up and play so well and look so good. I think Jones being out of the picture put him even more in the spotlight and that really got people talking even more.

[eddie83]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

To be clear, I have zero issue with them promoting this. I agree that they should.

My issue isn’t that they are celebrating that, it’s that they seem to place that about winning at the ML level. Every chance they get, they remind the fan base of this. They want to be patted on the back for it. They want people to say, wow look at how you have turned things around so fast (even though it’s being done in the right time line imo).

 

I get it.

The bottom line is they have an image problem. The thing is maybe there are people inside the organization that grasp this but aren’t in a position to effectively impact it. That’s on John. 
 

There is a disconnect between ownership and the fans. It’s the owners responsibility to fix that. He does anything but. Not to get off topic but my wife about an hour ago sent me a picture that popped up from 10 years ago. It’s a picture of her and our daughter on the field at OPACY, obviously it was FanFest. We went to the season ticket holder thing they had in the fall. It was a good idea but it’s not the same. 
 

Even if fans don’t want to agree with what he says by having a press conference with the media you can at least answer questions. Answer directly. If he says we think the payroll will climb gradually and we think we will contend for a WC spot this year and I am comfortable with what we have done at least he is on record. They want to promote what they want and ignore what they want, the best of both worlds. 

[Moose Milligan]

12 hours ago, TopGunnar said:

Also one more thing. It absolutely blows my mind that there are negative Orioles fans right now. We’ve been the worst team in baseball for decades and we’re now on the cusp of possible greatness and there’s people that have the guts to be negative. Go root for the yankees

I know, right?

It also blows my mind that there are people who want to think everything is hunky dory, too.  Know what I mean?  Like everything the Orioles are doing is great, every move is awesome and this team is going to win 110 games this year and walk away with a World Series.  The members of the Lollipop Guild in their propeller hats who think that everything is just ducky and, gee golly gosh, Mike Elias can do no wrong and everything is just sunshine and puppy dogs!

 

9 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

I think I understand. If it helps, I've followed the board for years. Been an O's fan since I was a kid in the mid 90's. Not up to speed enough to know that the Braves have been skipping AAA for their top guys, but I hope I've stayed relatively informed over the years.

I do remember fans losing their minds over the O's trading players like Jose Iglesias over the years and saying that such moves were massive affronts to the fan base. I think there's a tendency to lose the forest from the trees over moves like that (or the Frazier move IMO) in terms of how they effect the overall direction of the franchise. Completely agree on not questioning anyone's individual expression of fandom though, a fine line to be sure on message boards. 

I don't think anyone here lost their mind when we traded Iglesias.  But if we're talking about losing the forest through the trees, I think you missed on that analogy.

True, Frazier is a blip on the radar in the sense that he's here for one year but the overall direction of the franchise is going to be dictated by the very prospects he stands to hold back in playing time for this year.  Westburg and Ortiz will get their chances in Baltimore, no doubt about that but Frazier's presence this year gets in the way of that.  

If the forest is a winning ballclub and a contending ballclub, Westburg and Ortiz are more likely to be part of the forest and therefore it's paramount that these guys are getting at bats and time in the field in Baltimore, not guys like Adam Frazier.  And not guys like Adam Frazier at 8 million.  I mean, we're wasting Adley years now on guys like Adam Frazier for 8 million, that doesn't make sense if the forest is a youth movement and building as much of a core as possible.  Not to mention that this team is a pennypincher and that 8 million could have been spent better elsewhere (like on the rotation).

So you're somewhat correct in that Frazier doesn't alter the direction of the franchise from a 30k foot view since he's here on a one year contract, but he's certainly here to stunt the growth potential of prospects in 2023.  

I mean, what's more valuable to this franchise going forward, getting Westburg and/or Ortiz significant playing time in 2023 or Adam Frazier trying to crack a .700 OPS?  They've gotta see what they have in these guys in 2023 so they know who they can count on for 2024 and beyond and Frazier gets in the way of that.  

[ThisIsBirdland]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know, right?

It also blows my mind that there are people who want to think everything is hunky dory, too.  Know what I mean?  Like everything the Orioles are doing is great, every move is awesome and this team is going to win 110 games this year and walk away with a World Series.  The members of the Lollipop Guild in their propeller hats who think that everything is just ducky and, gee golly gosh, Mike Elias can do no wrong and everything is just sunshine and puppy dogs!

 

I don't think anyone here lost their mind when we traded Iglesias.  But if we're talking about losing the forest through the trees, I think you missed on that analogy.

True, Frazier is a blip on the radar in the sense that he's here for one year but the overall direction of the franchise is going to be dictated by the very prospects he stands to hold back in playing time for this year.  Westburg and Ortiz will get their chances in Baltimore, no doubt about that but Frazier's presence this year gets in the way of that.  

If the forest is a winning ballclub and a contending ballclub, Westburg and Ortiz are more likely to be part of the forest and therefore it's paramount that these guys are getting at bats and time in the field in Baltimore, not guys like Adam Frazier.  And not guys like Adam Frazier at 8 million.  I mean, we're wasting Adley years now on guys like Adam Frazier for 8 million, that doesn't make sense if the forest is a youth movement and building as much of a core as possible.  Not to mention that this team is a pennypincher and that 8 million could have been spent better elsewhere (like on the rotation).

So you're somewhat correct in that Frazier doesn't alter the direction of the franchise from a 30k foot view since he's here on a one year contract, but he's certainly here to stunt the growth potential of prospects in 2023.  

I mean, what's more valuable to this franchise going forward, getting Westburg and/or Ortiz significant playing time in 2023 or Adam Frazier trying to crack a .700 OPS?  They've gotta see what they have in these guys in 2023 so they know who they can count on for 2024 and beyond and Frazier gets in the way of that.  

Well argued. As I said, I don't necessarily know if it's the right move, I just don't think it's so clearly the wrong move. The front office, privy to far more information than we as fans are, believe that Frazier is worth the 1/$8m investment. Not to say they can't or don't make mistakes! But again, I assume they trust Frazier more as a veteran presence as opposed to relying on Urias/Vavra or Westburg in April/May. My best guess is Westburg duplicates or exceeds his 2022 output and pushes his way onto the team and regular at-bats in the infield by June, and Frazier jumps all over the place (2B/LF/RF), with he and/or Urias potentially traded at some point.

[MouncastleandMcCormick]

This thread keeps getting pulled off topic.  Do we just need a new Frazier thread so people can let off some more steam?

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Well argued. As I said, I don't necessarily know if it's the right move, I just don't think it's so clearly the wrong move. The front office, privy to far more information than we as fans are, believe that Frazier is worth the 1/$8m investment. Not to say they can't or don't make mistakes! But again, I assume they trust Frazier more as a veteran presence as opposed to relying on Urias/Vavra or Westburg in April/May. My best guess is Westburg duplicates or exceeds his 2022 output and pushes his way onto the team and regular at-bats in the infield by June, and Frazier jumps all over the place (2B/LF/RF), with he and/or Urias potentially traded at some point.

Frazier is slow, having seen his sprint speed rate drop way down. You want that in the OF?

[emmett16]

24 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know, right?

It also blows my mind that there are people who want to think everything is hunky dory, too.  Know what I mean?  Like everything the Orioles are doing is great, every move is awesome and this team is going to win 110 games this year and walk away with a World Series.  The members of the Lollipop Guild in their propeller hats who think that everything is just ducky and, gee golly gosh, Mike Elias can do no wrong and everything is just sunshine and puppy dogs!

 

I don't think anyone here lost their mind when we traded Iglesias.  But if we're talking about losing the forest through the trees, I think you missed on that analogy.

True, Frazier is a blip on the radar in the sense that he's here for one year but the overall direction of the franchise is going to be dictated by the very prospects he stands to hold back in playing time for this year.  Westburg and Ortiz will get their chances in Baltimore, no doubt about that but Frazier's presence this year gets in the way of that.  

If the forest is a winning ballclub and a contending ballclub, Westburg and Ortiz are more likely to be part of the forest and therefore it's paramount that these guys are getting at bats and time in the field in Baltimore, not guys like Adam Frazier.  And not guys like Adam Frazier at 8 million.  I mean, we're wasting Adley years now on guys like Adam Frazier for 8 million, that doesn't make sense if the forest is a youth movement and building as much of a core as possible.  Not to mention that this team is a pennypincher and that 8 million could have been spent better elsewhere (like on the rotation).

So you're somewhat correct in that Frazier doesn't alter the direction of the franchise from a 30k foot view since he's here on a one year contract, but he's certainly here to stunt the growth potential of prospects in 2023.  

I mean, what's more valuable to this franchise going forward, getting Westburg and/or Ortiz significant playing time in 2023 or Adam Frazier trying to crack a .700 OPS?  They've gotta see what they have in these guys in 2023 so they know who they can count on for 2024 and beyond and Frazier gets in the way of that.  

I think they are more concerned about the system as a whole and positional redundancy than they are Westburg & Ortiz specifically.  

[emmett16]

It will be interesting to see the list next year.  We have some real talent from 10-20 in our system, a new grouping of international guys, and the 2023 draft.  I think they could easily replace the graduates.  Hearing all the praise from outside outlets in the development system in Baltimore is beyond exciting.

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, MouncastleandMcCormick said:

This thread keeps getting pulled off topic.  Do we just need a new Frazier thread so people can let off some more steam?

I think you're missing the point.  People are advocating for the prospects that this very thread is about.