Do you want Wacha, and if so, what terms can you live with?

[interloper]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If you keep losing and don’t put out offers for them to accept, that’s essentially the same as ignoring it…at the very least, it’s the exact same result.

Not arguing same result. I just think we should make our points more honestly with the information that's available. 

If folks want to say we ignored pitchers like Verlander and those true #1 guys, I would probably agree there because there was no evidence or indication we were involved or interested in them. 

[ScGO's]

If there was an Option for a 1 Year Deal north of 12 M, I would have voted for that.

I don't want to commit more than 1 year if I'm Elias. I would throw 1 Year 15 Mil deals at Wacha and Greinke and take whoever signs first.

Depth is important, and the O's need it. My hope in 2023 is that Gray Rod would develop into an Ace, Wacha and Greinke help stabilize the back end of the rotation if two pitchers out of Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth, and Hall separate from the rest. That doesn't need to happen for this team to make the playoffs, but I just feel one more solid veteran pitcher is what we need; it gives us 9 SP candidates in camp (FA, Gibson, Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth, Hall, Watkins, Baumann), and Means coming back sometime later in the season

 

 

 

 

[Ripken]

20 minutes ago, interloper said:

Not arguing same result. I just think we should make our points more honestly with the information that's available. 

If folks want to say we ignored pitchers like Verlander and those true #1 guys, I would probably agree there because there was no evidence or indication we were involved or interested in them. 

There is zero chance Elias put in a strong offer on any top starter.  Did he lowball someone like Taillon? Yeah, probably.  So what?  There were chances to upgrade this rotation and he didn't do anything about it.  That's ignoring the opportunity.  If you want to believe otherwise feel free.  

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, LookinUp said:

This is always true, but I think for the O's the price point matters, and not just because Angelos owns the team. 

1. Wacha himself is likely to be one of those guys who goes down with injuries.

2. We do have 7 guys right now. Gibson, Rodriguez, Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth and Hall.

3. I think the O's might like a few AA/AAA arms more than we talk about here. Denoyer, Armbruester and Rom would be the first three. Behind them could be Povich (assuming development) and Young (assuming health). And that ignores Baumann, Cano and a couple of others.

Bottom line is I don't see the O's signing a guy for depth because I think they have some at a much cheaper cost. They might want Wacha because he's more talented, but that is an open question and I think a smart team is willing to only go so far on the price point with that question in mind.

How could you forget Zimmerman?  There are a few other AAAA arms we would rather not see again.  Are Sedlock and Lowther still part of the organization?

[OriolesMagic83]

29 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

If there was an Option for a 1 Year Deal north of 12 M, I would have voted for that.

I don't want to commit more than 1 year if I'm Elias. I would throw 1 Year 15 Mil deals at Wacha and Greinke and take whoever signs first.

Depth is important, and the O's need it. My hope in 2023 is that Gray Rod would develop into an Ace, Wacha and Greinke help stabilize the back end of the rotation if two pitchers out of Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth, and Hall separate from the rest. That doesn't need to happen for this team to make the playoffs, but I just feel one more solid veteran pitcher is what we need; it gives us 9 SP candidates in camp (FA, Gibson, Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth, Hall, Watkins, Baumann), and Means coming back sometime later in the season

 

 

 

 

I would much rather have Greinke than Wacha.  Would much rather have a pitcher who has a history of greatness and made the transition from power pitcher to wily veteran.  Yeah, I don't expect any great results from Greinke, but I imagine Greinke can teach the O's young pitchers a lot more than Wacha.

[Moose Milligan]

If we have to have one or the other, I'd prefer Greinke to Wacha, too.  Ideally we don't get either of them.

[Orange]

So, we’ve got six primary candidates for the five rotation spots. If you assume one guy fizzles and one gets a major injury you’re left with just four guys. If you sign Wacha, then HE can be the injured guy. 

[sportsfan8703]

54 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

If there was an Option for a 1 Year Deal north of 12 M, I would have voted for that.

I don't want to commit more than 1 year if I'm Elias. I would throw 1 Year 15 Mil deals at Wacha and Greinke and take whoever signs first.

Depth is important, and the O's need it. My hope in 2023 is that Gray Rod would develop into an Ace, Wacha and Greinke help stabilize the back end of the rotation if two pitchers out of Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth, and Hall separate from the rest. That doesn't need to happen for this team to make the playoffs, but I just feel one more solid veteran pitcher is what we need; it gives us 9 SP candidates in camp (FA, Gibson, Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth, Hall, Watkins, Baumann), and Means coming back sometime later in the season

 

 

 

 

Is 15m in depth worth it to ownership? The games started by Baumann, Reyes, Zimmerman, etc…, likely cost us a WC spot.  The goal this year should be to have enough depth to avoid throwing out SP where you are going to be +200 underdogs. 

[Ripken]

If we're gonna sign a #5 type, I'd go with Greinke.  Greinke is certainly at the end while Wacha was good last year and bad the three seasons before that.  While I don't expect much from either, at least Greinke has a history of being awesome that could be valuable to our young guys.

[ScGO's]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is 15m in depth worth it to ownership? The games started by Baumann, Reyes, Zimmerman, etc…, likely cost us a WC spot.  The goal this year should be to have enough depth to avoid throwing out SP where you are going to be +200 underdogs. 

If we spent that money, I think we are still a bottom 3 payroll right?

 

Its an overpay for sure, but might be what it takes to get it done. You hope the investment pays off if they bite. If he repeats something like last year's season, that would be a huge add for this team. If he gets hurt or sucks, he's gone next year.

 

 

[Spy Fox]

I'm also with the Greinke crowd if we sign another SP. Greinke could turn into a pumpkin any year but Wacha already was a pumpkin for several years until '22.

I don't think a signing like this will really move the needle but I do think either one on a ~$10M or less 1 year deal is a net positive. For helping the "make sure you limit the starts by very bad pitchers" cause. 

[Going Underground]

The Ray's locked up another of their players to a few additional years 

Per MLBTR:

TEAMS

Rays Extend Jeffrey Springs

January 25th, 2023 at 2:10pm CST • By Darragh McDonald

The Rays and left-hander Jeffrey Springs have signed a contract extension, reports Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times (Twitter links). Springs will get $31MM over four years but there’s a club option for 2027 and incentives that could lead to Springs earning $65.75MM. Joel Sherman of The New York Post provides a breakdown of the deal, with Springs earning $4MM this year, $5.25MM next year, followed by $10.5MM in each of the following two seasons. Topkin adds that there’s a $750K buyout on a $15MM option for 2027. Springs was set to reach free agency after 2024, so this could allow the Rays to secure him for three additional seasons, if they end up triggering that option.

[emmett16]

I am a firm believer of you can never have too much pitching.  I don’t like him much, but if this team isn’t going to sign an impact player I’d rather they at least spend on inventory.  One year deal for him If be OK with, so long as he doesn’t keep getting run out there if he is a disaster.  

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

breakdown of the deal, with Springs earning $4MM this year, $5.25MM next year, followed by $10.5MM in each of the following two seasons. Topkin adds that there’s a $750K buyout on a $15MM option for 2027. Springs was set to reach free agency after 2024, so this could allow the Rays to secure him for three additional seasons, if they end up triggering that option.

So....John Means is also a left handed SP with two years remaining before free agency...

The first two FA seasons 2025-2026 look like 2/21, about the Stripling contract from this offseason.    That 2027 buyout at just 5% of the option value is cheap.

Curious how folks would regard it if Means signed this same contract tonight.

[AnythingO's]

22 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

So....John Means is also a left handed SP with two years remaining before free agency...

The first two FA seasons 2025-2026 look like 2/21, about the Stripling contract from this offseason.    That 2027 buyout at just 5% of the option value is cheap.

Curious how folks would regard it if Means signed this same contract tonight.

I would be happy if ME just offered it, regardless of if Means accepted. Part of me believes Means made himself into a #2-3 SP and part of me thinks that ME's new system and coaches played a significant role also. I can't weigh the impact of either but I want-need something positive to happen in this off season of discontent. I value guys who take the initiative to max out their natural abilities.