Wednesday April 12: Orioles attempt to win series from Oakland

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Pretty much.

And it will be Bemboom catching...

[Winter]

6 minutes ago, OldNewGuy said:

Hold on O's fans. This A's bullpen with Rollie Fingers and Eddie Plank unable to go tonight is vulnerable to an O's hitting barrage.

maybe if Frazier didn't need 5 balls to get that lead of walk

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

This is what I think the logic was:   game tied 4-4 after 7, Akin already in there and hadn't thrown too many pitches, but probably already enough that he wouldn't be available tomorrow afternoon.

You have to be concerned about the possibility of extra innings at this point.  So instead of going to Cionel immediately to start the 8th, you hope you can get another inning out of Akin, or maybe 2/3 and Cionel could come on to get a last out if Akin gets in a bit of a jam.   If you bring Cionel in to start the 8th you are almost committing to Cionel/Felix for 8 & 9 and then you are left with dregs in extra innings.   If Akin can get you through the 8th you can use one of Cionel/Felix in the 9th depending on whether LH or RH hitters are due, and still have a good bullet in your gun for extras.

So he hoped Akin could get through all or most of the 8th.   And it didn't work out.

Probably not a great decision but not as indefensible as some people here seem to feel, IMO.

You talked my into this. I agree. Adds up more I think about it. 
 

It’s game 12 not September. 

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not so sure I can agree.

We won last night due to some Mountcastle heroics, an ultra rare 9 RBI performance that hasn't happened in MLB since 2020 and in team history since 1985.  It was awesome, it was fun, it was something we'll all remember but let's not forget that it took a LOT of heavy lifting from one guy to get it done last night.  

And then to come out tonight and to just **** the bed...you can argue we had the baseball Gods looking out for us last night and tonight they're watching another game.  

I still feel like we should take 3/4 from Oakland but Irvin is starting tomorrow and he's been a trainwreck so far.  If we split, I guess we split but I won't feel really good about it.  Oakland is a team that a GOOD team should take 3/4 from in a 4 game series.  

I'll worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow. I am concerned that this teams outfield defense remains suspect and it's not a high IQ team. That's coaching. When you a hire a manager and coaches who are good at following directions and implementing computer suggestions, you lose the guys who know how to teach and beat in fundamentals.

I good manager would have the power to send McKenna to the minors after his garbage lackadaisical play in Cf. A good manager would have made sure Hays doesn't lose track of where runners are because he would demand accountability. There has always been zero accountability for poor mental errors by Hyde. He's a player buddy manager. He's the guy that is not really smart enough to know how to lie about why he never played Stowers. 

 

 

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not so sure I can agree.

We won last night due to some Mountcastle heroics, an ultra rare 9 RBI performance that hasn't happened in MLB since 2020 and in team history since 1985.  It was awesome, it was fun, it was something we'll all remember but let's not forget that it took a LOT of heavy lifting from one guy to get it done last night.  

And then to come out tonight and to just **** the bed...you can argue we had the baseball Gods looking out for us last night and tonight they're watching another game.  

I still feel like we should take 3/4 from Oakland but Irvin is starting tomorrow and he's been a trainwreck so far.  If we split, I guess we split but I won't feel really good about it.  Oakland is a team that a GOOD team should take 3/4 from in a 4 game series.  

Should be a good matchup for him tomorrow. Pen needs a rest. 

[Moshagge3]

Already 0-4 when trying to get to 2 games above .500.

[Tony-OH]

While the bullpen and the outfield defense were bad tonight, let's remember, Kremer was unable to go 5 innings against the A's. 

At least he had fun playing exhibition games for Israel in the WBC.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Moshagge3 said:

Already 0-4 when trying to get to 2 games above .500.

Get use to it. Looking at this team, I think they are going to hover around .500 all year.

[jdwilde1]

12 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Or Eddie Murray, he wouldn't have stood for this from the early 80's Orioles teams.

Or Jake Taylor.  Remember when he told Roger Dorn:

But if you ever, ever tank another play like you did today, I'm gonna cut your nuts off and stuff em down your f***in throat!

Edited April 13, 2023 by jdwilde1
Typo

[Tony-OH]

13 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Obviously I was joking about Odor, but it appears that this team needs someone to bring a bit of intensity, seriousness, or whatever.  Can you imagine this amount of mental mistakes on a team with Frank Robinson or Rick Dempsey or Kirk Gibson?  Somebody needs a frank discussion with some of these guys because its unacceptable to not have your head in the game all the time.  

That's not the way managers work anymore. Could you imagine the beer bong even with Showalter as manager? Players runs the asylum and Hyde and just trying to keep a job. He doesn't lead. He just instills the lineup card Sig's computer spits out to him. 

[bpilktree]

9 minutes ago, SteveA said:

This is what I think the logic was:   game tied 4-4 after 7, Akin already in there and hadn't thrown too many pitches, but probably already enough that he wouldn't be available tomorrow afternoon.

You have to be concerned about the possibility of extra innings at this point.  So instead of going to Cionel immediately to start the 8th, you hope you can get another inning out of Akin, or maybe 2/3 and Cionel could come on to get a last out if Akin gets in a bit of a jam.   If you bring Cionel in to start the 8th you are almost committing to Cionel/Felix for 8 & 9 and then you are left with dregs in extra innings.   If Akin can get you through the 8th you can use one of Cionel/Felix in the 9th depending on whether LH or RH hitters are due, and still have a good bullet in your gun for extras.

So he hoped Akin could get through all or most of the 8th.   And it didn't work out.

Probably not a great decision but not as indefensible as some people here seem to feel, IMO.

Exactly you don’t like to burn bullpen guys in tie game.  Perez was warming in case you get the lead.  If you don’t you want to try to extend the guy currently in the game to get you through the inning or at least get you some outs.  Akin didn’t do his job then Perez didn’t help him out any.  Perez has been getting hit pretty hard lately especially the fastball.  They need him to picking it up quick especially with Givins and Tate out.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow. I am concerned that this teams outfield defense remains suspect and it's not a high IQ team. That's coaching. When you a hire a manager and coaches who are good at following directions and implementing computer suggestions, you lose the guys who know how to teach and beat in fundamentals.

I good manager would have the power to send McKenna to the minors after his garbage lackadaisical play in Cf. A good manager would have made sure Hays doesn't lose track of where runners are because he would demand accountability. There has always been zero accountability for poor mental errors by Hyde. He's a player buddy manager. He's the guy that is not really smart enough to know how to lie about why he never played Stowers. 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that, at least not totally.

But I also feel that's not just on Hyde...that's an organizational issue.  I mean, I'm too young to remember the "Orioles Way" teams but I know enough to know that those things, the fundamentals, were drilled into everyone across the organization...that if you came up from A ball to AA, you had an understanding of situational awareness, same with AA to AAA and AAA to the majors.  That's what made it special, a method of how to play the game correctly spread across the entire organization so that everyone was on the same page.

So while it's easy to pick Hyde to be the fall guy here, I think the blame should be spread across the entire organization, not just Hyde.  I mean, a guy like McKenna and a guy like Hays should know better by now.  Hyde can't be on the top step of the dugout yelling at them to throw the ball to the correct base like a Little League coach.  Hyde can't be calling timeout to make sure that each guy knows what to do in a situation.  

[jdwilde1]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's not the way managers work anymore. Could you imagine the beer bong even with Showalter as manager? Players runs the asylum and Hyde and just trying to keep a job. He doesn't lead. He just instills the lineup card Sig's computer spits out to him. 

Speaking of Showalter, I absolutely remember being so pleased at how quickly the O’s became a fundamentally sound team after he arrived.  The Trembley, Perlozzo, Mazzilli teams played notoriously dumb baseball. It is not a coincidence that his teams have won so much.  It’s tough to win when you are not fundamentally sound.
 

*Note, Buck’s decision to not use Britton against Toronto is still the single dumbest decision I have ever seen a manager or coach make in any sport.

[Tony-OH]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't disagree with any of that, at least not totally.

But I also feel that's not just on Hyde...that's an organizational issue.  I mean, I'm too young to remember the "Orioles Way" teams but I know enough to know that those things, the fundamentals, were drilled into everyone across the organization...that if you came up from A ball to AA, you had an understanding of situational awareness, same with AA to AAA and AAA to the majors.  That's what made it special, a method of how to play the game correctly spread across the entire organization so that everyone was on the same page.

So while it's easy to pick Hyde to be the fall guy here, I think the blame should be spread across the entire organization, not just Hyde.  I mean, a guy like McKenna and a guy like Hays should know better by now.  Hyde can't be on the top step of the dugout yelling at them to throw the ball to the correct base like a Little League coach.  Hyde can't be calling timeout to make sure that each guy knows what to do in a situation.  

Agreed, but it's Hyde's job to make sure they were prepared properly in spring training and then to create accountability when players don't do what a little leaguer would do. That's on Hyde. 

I was pretty ambivalent on Hyde during the losing, but now that this team should be decent, I say a lot of sloppy, sloppy play with the same guys being run out there.

[jdwilde1]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't disagree with any of that, at least not totally.

But I also feel that's not just on Hyde...that's an organizational issue.  I mean, I'm too young to remember the "Orioles Way" teams but I know enough to know that those things, the fundamentals, were drilled into everyone across the organization...that if you came up from A ball to AA, you had an understanding of situational awareness, same with AA to AAA and AAA to the majors.  That's what made it special, a method of how to play the game correctly spread across the entire organization so that everyone was on the same page.

So while it's easy to pick Hyde to be the fall guy here, I think the blame should be spread across the entire organization, not just Hyde.  I mean, a guy like McKenna and a guy like Hays should know better by now.  Hyde can't be on the top step of the dugout yelling at them to throw the ball to the correct base like a Little League coach.  Hyde can't be calling timeout to make sure that each guy knows what to do in a situation.  

These mistakes aren’t on Hyde, they are on the players making the mistakes.  These are mistakes that would be unacceptable on a JV team.  What is on Hyde is to make sure that it doesn’t continue.

Edited April 13, 2023 by jdwilde1
Typo