Bautista 2023

[Flash- bd]

5 hours ago, banks703 said:

The way that Aaron Judge hits against the Orioles, I don't care if it's Mariano Rivera out there throwing to him, I take my chances against Rizzo over Judge. To be clear, again, I'm not suggesting an IBB of Judge but you had him 0-2 and he hadn't sniffed your cheese. Come out of your shoes trying to hit 105 and if you throw it off of the press box, so what. Don't give him ANYTHING that he can get wood on in the rest of that AB. If he doesn't chase and earns a walk, tip your cap.

 

I didn't like the pitch call and obviously the execution was awful but Aaron Judge absolutely obliterates the Orioles. Why give him an opportunity to beat you? 

 

I just don't understand why anyone is arguing against not pitching to Judge in that situation. If ANYONE says that they were confident that Felix would get Judge in that AB, they are lying. When the 8th ended, I knew that Judge was going to get the better of Felix because that's how the story goes with Judge and the O's, especially at their place and it will go the same way the next time. That's just how it is and until that routine is broken, the O's are going to remain behind the Yankees and the other elite teams in the division. 

No offence, but I read your post as one big hindsight bias. 

He had him 0-2, and he hung a splitter. It's baseball, it can happen. 

[banks703]

32 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

No offence, but I read your post as one big hindsight bias. 

He had him 0-2, and he hung a splitter. It's baseball, it can happen. 

Check my post history and tell me if I haven’t long been advocating for them to pitch around Judge and guys like Arozarena. It’s not new but thanks. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by banks703

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Check my post history and tell me if I haven’t long been advocating for them to pitch around Judge and guys like Arozarena. It’s not new but thanks. 

So instead of going 1-4 with a walk you would have just walked him five times?

I'm sure trading three outs for three baserunners wouldn't have caused any issues.

[banks703]

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So instead of going 1-4 with a walk you would have just walked him five times?

I'm sure trading three outs for three baserunners wouldn't have caused any issues.

Obviously it’s not as simple as you’re obnoxiously making it. If given the choice to pitch around Judge with the bases empty and a one run lead in the ninth to face Rizzo .. or face Judge .. I am taking my chances with Rizzo 100 times out of 100. 
 

Judge DESTROYS the O’s. At some point you have to decide that this particular guy isn’t going to beat you. 
 

The 102 hits, 38 home runs, 19 doubles, 80+ RBI with an OPS of 1.142 over 91 games for Judge against the O’s in his career hasn’t taught us enough yet. 
 

And with Felix, a fastball pitcher .. yes. I’m taking my chances with Rizzo. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, banks703 said:

Obviously it’s not as simple as you’re obnoxiously making it. If given the choice to pitch around Judge with the bases empty and a one run lead in the ninth to face Rizzo .. or face Judge .. I am taking my chances with Rizzo 100 times out of 100. 
 

Judge DESTROYS the O’s. At some point you have to decide that this particular guy isn’t going to beat you. 
 

The 102 hits, 38 home runs, 19 doubles, 80+ RBI with an OPS of 1.142 over 91 games for Judge against the O’s in his career hasn’t taught us enough yet. 
 

And with Felix, a fastball pitcher .. yes. I’m taking my chances with Rizzo. 

Oh, so without the benefit of hindsight you wouldn't have walked him the three times he made an out and you would have walked him the one time he got a hit.

Got it.

[Hallas]

I get the consternation about Felix with walks, but his FIP, xFIP, and xERA are all in the 2's, while sporting a 1.5 ERA.  It's baseball.  Stuff happens.  He's successful more than not.

[banks703]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh, so without the benefit of hindsight you wouldn't have walked him the three times he made an out and you would have walked him the one time he got a hit.

Got it.

I’ve not suggested to outright walk him. I’ve repeatedly stated to not give him anything to hit. I have some books I can suggest if you need help with reading comprehension. 
 

And as I’ve stated more than once, I’ve long advocated on this very board to pitch Judge this way. It’s not a matter of hindsight but nice try, pal. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I’ve not suggested to outright walk him. I’ve repeatedly stated to not give him anything to hit. I have some books I can suggest if you need help with reading comprehension. 
 

And as I’ve stated more than once, I’ve long advocated on this very board to pitch Judge this way. It’s not a matter of hindsight but nice try, pal. 

Sure, but Judge is a disciplined hitter.  If you pitch around him enough that he won't get a mistake that he can park odds are pretty good you are pitching around him enough that he's going to take his walk.

From what you've seen of Judge do you think he's the type to swing at three balls that don't qualify as "anything to hit"?

Edited May 24, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[banks703]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, but Judge is a disciplined hitter.  If you pitch around him enough that he won't get a mistake that he can park odds are pretty good you are pitching around him enough that he's going to take his walk.

From what you've seen of Judge do you think he's the type to swing at three balls that don't qualify as "anything to hit"?

Judge is a phenomenal hitter with probably the most consistent in game power in the game. He’s probably not going to chase and would take his walks but I’d rather he get tired of walking and chase pitches more than to be spoon fed opportunities to do the damage that he does against the O’s, which is otherworldly at this point. 
 

I’ve never suggested outright walking him but as a hitter if I am consistently being pitched around, at some point I want to swing the bat and I’m going to expand my zone. Judge is no different in that regard, only he’s one of the five or so best hitters on the planet right now. And clearly the strategy to pitch to him as if he’s any other hitter in their lineup hasn’t worked well for them given his video game numbers against the O’s. 
 

For a while Champ Bailey was the best cornerback in the NFL. I’d argue that for a 5-7 year stretch he was head and shoulders better than any other corner in the game. For some reason though, David Boston ate his lunch every time they matched up against each other. Some dudes just have your number. I’m perfectly fine admitting that Aaron Judge has the O’s number. He eats their lunch, kicks their dog, pissed in their cornflakes. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

Judge is a phenomenal hitter with probably the most consistent in game power in the game. He’s probably not going to chase and would take his walks but I’d rather he get tired of walking and chase pitches more than to be spoon fed opportunities to do the damage that he does against the O’s, which is otherworldly at this point. 
 

I’ve never suggested outright walking him but as a hitter if I am consistently being pitched around, at some point I want to swing the bat and I’m going to expand my zone. Judge is no different in that regard, only he’s one of the five or so best hitters on the planet right now. And clearly the strategy to pitch to him as if he’s any other hitter in their lineup hasn’t worked well for them given his video game numbers against the O’s. 
 

For a while Champ Bailey was the best cornerback in the NFL. I’d argue that for a 5-7 year stretch he was head and shoulders better than any other corner in the game. For some reason though, David Boston ate his lunch every time they matched up against each other. Some dudes just have your number. I’m perfectly fine admitting that Aaron Judge has the O’s number. He eats their lunch, kicks their dog, pissed in their cornflakes. 

What makes you think he'd get tired of walking and start chases pitches safely out of the zone?

Did Bonds ever get tired or walking?  Did Williams?  Does Soto?

How do you know Judge is "no different" than you?  Are you actually suggesting you and Judge are in the same category as hitters?

[Billy F-Face3]

All the woulda, coulda' and shoulda's don't amount to a different outcome. We will never know. All you can do is tip your hat to a great hitter, flush it, and try to execute better on the next one.

 

It's funny that Champ Bailey was mentioned. He was my favorite CB at one point in time. But when I went to live games I tended to see him squat on routes and get burnt deep more times than I'd like to remember.

[banks703]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What makes you think he'd get tired of walking and start chases pitches safely out of the zone?

Did Bonds ever get tired or walking?  Did Williams?  Does Soto?

How do you know Judge is "no different" than you?  Are you actually suggesting you and Judge are in the same category as hitters?

Now you’re just being a wise guy. I never suggested that I’m in the same category as Aaron Judge. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, banks703 said:

Now you’re just being a wise guy. I never suggested that I’m in the same category as Aaron Judge. 

You are suggesting that you have some insight into his thought process, that he would respond like you do to certain stimulus.  That implies some degree of similarity.  You are the one that said "Judge is no different in that regard" when talking about how you would react to a certain situation. 

Some guys will just take the walk, every time.  Judge is pretty much one of those guys.

If your plan is to make darn sure he isn't going to get anything to hit in an at bat, you're pretty much putting him on first.

[HandsomeQuack]

Something Ben has talked about is that pitchers don't like getting told to "pitch around" guys. They want to either get the guy at the plate or not pitch to him at all. Of course you can nibble as a pitcher, but I don't think it's worthwhile to tell Felix to throw four fastballs that aren't supposed to be close to being strikes.

As for Judge's discipline, he has one of the highest walk rates in the league and he knew he was the tying run. Either make some effort to get him out (my personal choice) or move on to the next guy.

It is what it is though, I think Banks and I will agree to disagree. We are disappointed but we move on to the next.

[Frobby]

Nice to see Felix come back tonight and pitch well, though he still couldn’t land the splitter where he wants it.  His fastball command was really good, though.  Someone in the game thread pointed out that he seemed a little afraid to pitch to Judge, even up 3.   That might bear watching.