We really are in a monster of a division

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

I think it's awesome. As was Amir Garrett mocking Bryan Baker. If you don't want to be shown up on the field, play better.

People getting upset over this should be banned from watching or talking about baseball.

Did we learn nothing from the WBC?

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Baseball fans:  WE NEED NEW WAYS TO ATTRACT FANS AND GET PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT BASEBALL AGAIN THE YOUNGSTERS AREN'T INTERESTED!!!!!111

*Wander Franco*

Baseball fans:  NOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT THERE'S NO ROOM IN THE GRAND OLD GAME FOR THAT!!

I don't understand this post and twitter comment at all. Why would people be upset since he got the out. Why would him flipping the ball before he makes a throw and watching a home run make younger fans like baseball more? 

Wait, is there some kid sitting at home playing XBOX who hates baseball, accidently sees this video and goes, "Holy crap, I love this game now! Look at him he willy nilly flips the ball in the air before he throws the ball. How cool! I'm going to start watching random Tampa Rays games now and wait to see what he does next. Maybe he'll touch each finger to his thumb before adjusting his cup? Good Lord, I can't believe I've been missing all of this."

I will say this though, had he missed that ball and the runner was safe, I'd pitch a F'ing fit if he were on the Orioles doing that. Watching homers, flipping bats, doing the sprinkler after a double are all after the play and I could care less. Potentially making a play harder or adding difficulty for no reason other then to show off is dumb and it does NOTHING to attract younger viewers.

 

 

 

[interloper]

The good news is that teams who win the most games in the regular season rarely if ever win the WS, so Tampa is basically screwed as it stands right now. 

[btdart20]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is his nickname vogue?  They need to make that happen.

  It's not like he's dancing the sprinkler when he doubles, but yeah!  I bet he uses as much hair dye as Madonna has over the years too.

[interloper]

20 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

I think it's awesome. As was Amir Garrett mocking Bryan Baker. If you don't want to be shown up on the field, play better.

Yep. Can't be mad about the Royals reliever moonwalking off the mound last night to mock Baker. If we don't suck ass the entire game, that doesn't happen. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by interloper

[Moshagge3]

39 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't understand this post and twitter comment at all. Why would people be upset since he got the out. Why would him flipping the ball before he makes a throw and watching a home run make younger fans like baseball more? 

Wait, is there some kid sitting at home playing XBOX who hates baseball, accidently sees this video and goes, "Holy crap, I love this game now! Look at him he willy nilly flips the ball in the air before he throws the ball. How cool! I'm going to start watching random Tampa Rays games now and wait to see what he does next. Maybe he'll touch each finger to his thumb before adjusting his cup? Good Lord, I can't believe I've been missing all of this."

I will say this though, had he missed that ball and the runner was safe, I'd pitch a F'ing fit if he were on the Orioles doing that. Watching homers, flipping bats, doing the sprinkler after a double are all after the play and I could care less. Potentially making a play harder or adding difficulty for no reason other then to show off is dumb and it does NOTHING to attract younger viewers.

 

 

 

What would have been a routine groundout has now been viewed thousands of times on social media. No single play is going to make someone who hates baseball into a fan, but younger people whose perception of what matters in the world is colored by what pops up in their social media feed based on algorithms are going to start seeing Wander Franco along with Steph Curry and Pat Mahomes. Just getting eyeballs is significant.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moshagge3 said:

What would have been a routine groundout has now been viewed thousands of times on social media. No single play is going to make someone who hates baseball into a fan, but younger people whose perception of what matters in the world is colored by what pops up in their social media feed based on algorithms are going to start seeing Wander Franco along with Steph Curry and Pat Mahomes. Just getting eyeballs is significant.

And hundreds of kids in little league are going to try it now and fail.

It will be hilarious.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Moshagge3 said:

What would have been a routine groundout has now been viewed thousands of times on social media. No single play is going to make someone who hates baseball into a fan, but younger people whose perception of what matters in the world is colored by what pops up in their social media feed based on algorithms are going to start seeing Wander Franco along with Steph Curry and Pat Mahomes. Just getting eyeballs is significant.

Perhaps, but if flipping a ball in the air before you throw it gets eyeballs and that's what going to keep the sport viable for the next generation, this game is in more trouble than I thought. If kids need players to act like clowns for their attention then yuck! 

[Tony-OH]

51 minutes ago, interloper said:

The good news is that teams who win the most games in the regular season rarely if ever win the WS, so Tampa is basically screwed as it stands right now. 

And Tampa definitely rarely wins the World Series.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Perhaps, but if flipping a ball in the air before you throw it gets eyeballs and that's what going to keep the sport viable for the next generation, this game is in more trouble than I thought. If kids need players to act like clowns for their attention then yuck! 

Well, Franco is just doing this for himself, it's not like it's an MLB mandate for guys to get silly out there. Baseball is just in that environment now where even managers are on board with moonwalking and dugout watersports. Which is fine with me, but it would be different if MLB was somehow incentivizing it. I think the social media age is what's encouraging it is all. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Well, Franco is just doing this for himself, it's not like it's an MLB mandate for guys to get silly out there. Baseball is just in that environment now where even managers are on board with moonwalking and dugout watersports. Which is fine with me, but it would be different if MLB was somehow incentivizing it. I think the social media age is what's encouraging it is all. 

People are also starting to realize that the past issues of unwritten rules and players crying over them are stupid. 
 

Let these guys have fun. It’s supposed to be fun.

[btdart20]

Dumb stuff like that increases skills in the right setting.  Kids will be kids in the corner lot.  That's the right setting for having that type of fun.  And coaches will be coaches on the travel, HS, and college fields too.  If the kid blows the play, there will be consequences.

[Just Regular]

Pirates are 0-2 in their start to a 9 out of 12 games stretch vs. AL East opponents.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't understand this post and twitter comment at all. Why would people be upset since he got the out. Why would him flipping the ball before he makes a throw and watching a home run make younger fans like baseball more? 

Wait, is there some kid sitting at home playing XBOX who hates baseball, accidently sees this video and goes, "Holy crap, I love this game now! Look at him he willy nilly flips the ball in the air before he throws the ball. How cool! I'm going to start watching random Tampa Rays games now and wait to see what he does next. Maybe he'll touch each finger to his thumb before adjusting his cup? Good Lord, I can't believe I've been missing all of this."

I will say this though, had he missed that ball and the runner was safe, I'd pitch a F'ing fit if he were on the Orioles doing that. Watching homers, flipping bats, doing the sprinkler after a double are all after the play and I could care less. Potentially making a play harder or adding difficulty for no reason other then to show off is dumb and it does NOTHING to attract younger viewers.

 

 

 

I don't understand what you don't understand.  I mean, the twitter post was obvious, that the old stodgy baseball establishment will be upset by what Franco with that flip and how he stunted on the homer he hit the next inning.

What I wrote was pretty straightforward.  MLB has a marketing problem and they're having a hard time getting young kids interested in the game.  Soccer and lacrosse are swelling in popularity, football remains #1 and probably will be for quite some time and basketball is global.  Baseball trails and the gap is widening.  And there's a rock and a hard place of wanting these guys to be able to express themselves and have fun, but something like this is over the edge?  

So I don't think some kid playing XBox who hates baseball is going to magically come around on the game because of what Wander Franco did, that's a safe bet.  But that kid isn't who's being targeted on social media with replays of that clip.  One clip isn't going to change someone's impression and through your sarcasm I know you know that to be true.  But if more kids see that MLB players are having fun and showing some flair on a repeated basis, that doesn't hurt anyone.

Like what @Moshagge3said, that clip gets eyes on the game, on a level where Curry and Mahomes are.  That flip, to me, was like Mahomes making one of his crazy no look passes.  Risky?  Absolutely.  Did it work?  Sure did.  Do fans love it?  Well, the NFL fans seemed to eat it up with a knife and spoon...MLB fans seem pretty split on what Franco did.

But what's not said about that clip is that the Rays were up by a significant margin when he did that.  I don't think Franco does that in a late and close game.  So I'm with you on pitching a fit if an Orioles player did that and botched it, but less so if we're up 7 or 8 runs in the game, the calendar just turned to May and we're already over 100 runs better in run differential.

[Moose Milligan]

As soon as I posted that, the Joe Posnanski substack that I subscribe to hit my inbox and I agree 100% with everything that he wrote:

Quote

I’ve talked about this before, but it seems to fit again: In 2002, a 20-year-old woman named Lindsey Jacobellis was nearing the finish line at the first Olympic gold medal snowboardcross race. The gold was all hers, she had a substantial lead, and she decided on her final jump to do a little celebratory trick where she grabbed the snowboard while in midair. It’s a super-basic trick for someone like Jacobellis, but she fell anyway, and by the time she got up and crossed the line, she had to settle for the silver medal.

Many sportswriters and analysts (amazing how many snowboardcross analysts there suddenly were in the world) lambasted her for blowing her gold medal chance just so she could show off a little bit. And I found myself so completely on the other side of the argument, that I figured there had to be something wrong with me. And there probably is. My next sentence might very well set you off.

I believe there isn’t ENOUGH showboating in sports.

By showboating, I don’t mean taunting. The two get confused a lot, and yes, I can appreciate that it can be a thin line between showboating and taunting. But what I’m talking about is athletes celebrating themselves, showing off their talents, performing for the crowd. What I’m talking about are five wonderful words that we first learn in childhood and should hold on to for the rest of our lives: “Look what I can do!”

This seems obvious to me in a sport like snowboardcross, which I can only presume was invented entirely BECAUSE of showing off (“Look what I can do!”). But, honestly, I’d like to see more of it in all sports. Sure, there’s a time and place. Sure, it can be overdone. Sure, as mentioned, it can come across to some as disrespectful.

But do we really need to be so sensitive? One of the most magical moments in baseball history — at least according to a book called WHY WE LOVE BASEBALL, which is coming out in September — happened when Satchel Paige intentionally walked two batters so he could face Josh Gibson with the bases loaded in the 1942 Negro Leagues World Series. It was a brilliant moment, I think*, because Satch understood as few others ever have that sports should be bigger than percentages and win probabilities and carefully playing the odds.

*The only two intentional walks I’ve EVER agreed with.

And this is especially true in baseball, where the season is 162 games long, and a dozen teams make the playoffs, and every regular-season game would be trivial except that we, as fans, insist on caring. We care because every game is an opportunity for a memory, something for us to cling to for the next week or next month or, if we’re lucky, forever.

And when I see Wander Franco flip the ball to himself before throwing it across the diamond, I think: That looks like so much fun! I wish I could do that!

I want more of that in sports, not less. I want to see athletes express themselves, have fun, scream to the world: “Look what I can do!” Yes, absolutely, it might lead to occasional mistakes and embarrassing moments. Maybe Wander Franco will try flipping the ball to himself and then drop it, costing a baserunner. I just don’t see that as the tragedy that others do, though. I mean, no, maybe don’t do it in the World Series. But in early May, Rays-Pirates, you’re 22 years old and bursting with talent, yeah, show off a little bit. It’s a game, after all.