Joey Ortiz 2023

[Aristotelian]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because we have other guys that are more valuable and only so many roster spots.

What value does Urias have if Ortiz is playing every day? Vs LHP you could bench Gunnar but do we really want to do that? If we could get a bullpen arm back for Urias would that change your answer of whether we are better off with Urias vs Mateo as the last guy? 

[Sports Guy]

31 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

What value does Urias have if Ortiz is playing every day? Vs LHP you could bench Gunnar but do we really want to do that? If we could get a bullpen arm back for Urias would that change your answer of whether we are better off with Urias vs Mateo as the last guy? 

You need a back up IFer and he can play all 4 positions and if someone gets hurt and has to play everyday, he’s our best option to do that.

I would trade Urias and maybe that would cause me to keep Mateo. It just depends on other factors.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Sports Guy

[banks703]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

What value does Urias have if Ortiz is playing every day? Vs LHP you could bench Gunnar but do we really want to do that? If we could get a bullpen arm back for Urias would that change your answer of whether we are better off with Urias vs Mateo as the last guy? 

I don't know that Ortiz plays EVERY day. We're seeing Gunnar get most starts but he isn't even playing everyday. I see many ways that they can manage PT for the five of Urias, JW, Gunnar, Joey and Frazier given their position flexibility and splits. 

[Aristotelian]

12 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I don't know that Ortiz plays EVERY day. We're seeing Gunnar get most starts but he isn't even playing everyday. I see many ways that they can manage PT for the five of Urias, JW, Gunnar, Joey and Frazier given their position flexibility and splits. 

Problem with both Ortiz and Urias is they are RHB so there is no platoon reason to favor one over the other. If we think Ortiz is the better player he should play every day. Or vice versa. 

[banks703]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You need a back IFer and he can play all 4 positions and someone gets hurt and has to play everyday, he’s our best option to do that.

I would trade Urias and maybe that would cause me to keep Mateo. It just depends on other factors.

Urias quite literally could rotate around the diamond to get ABs. He's a Gold Glove winner at third. His defense at 2B this year is actually better than his defense at 3B this year. He's playing some 1B. I don't think that they need him to play SS but he could in a pinch as could Frazier. Urias in a super utility role a la Flaherty during the playoff runs of the 2010's would be a really good thing for this Orioles team. Having just turned 29 this year he is still young enough to be part of this competing window they are in right now. I don't think that Urias is ever going to be as good as he was last year but he could play 100 games for them between 3B, 2B, 1B and DH. 

 

I do think that Joey makes Urias somewhat redundant. Urias doesn't exactly hit LHP well with a career AVG of .222. Surprisingly though, he has hit best in the Majors when penciled in as a SS. In 170 career at bats as a SS he's hit .300. 

 

As big of a fan as I am of Jorge Mateo, if given the choice between Urias and Jorge, I am taking Urias as he is the overall more valuable player to the Orioles right now and going forward. Jorge's defense is down a tick from last year, which probably puts Joey more in line with him as a defensive player. The move to Joey is almost laughably apparent at this point. I hope that they do something soon because July is going to eat them up unless they improve the offense and Jorge just isn't going to do that. 

[sportsfan8703]

Ortiz isn’t going anywhere. Elias values premium defense too much. Especially at a premium position. We were just reminded that with the draft. Ortiz is also now hitting cleanup in AAA. 

Ortiz will be our 4th IF, and in the Urias role, next year. Gunnar, Holliday, and Westburg will be the “starters”. Ortiz will play against all LH SP and sprinkled in versus RHP. He’ll also be a late game defensive sub. Urias and Mateo will get moved before OD over the off season. 

Ortiz has a definitive role and a valuable role as well with us next year and the future. We aren’t giving away a premium defender at SS. 

He’s untouchable. 

[wildcard]

29 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Ortiz isn’t going anywhere. Elias values premium defense too much. Especially at a premium position. We were just reminded that with the draft. Ortiz is also now hitting cleanup in AAA. 

Ortiz will be our 4th IF, and in the Urias role, next year. Gunnar, Holliday, and Westburg will be the “starters”. Ortiz will play against all LH SP and sprinkled in versus RHP. He’ll also be a late game defensive sub. Urias and Mateo will get moved before OD over the off season. 

Ortiz has a definitive role and a valuable role as well with us next year and the future. We aren’t giving away a premium defender at SS. 

He’s untouchable. 

So you think Holliday begins 2024 as the O's SS.   I tend to think that is a little quick.

Edited July 11, 2023 by wildcard

[Os4days]

Ortiz is untouchable? Please … no one is untouchable. This is baseball. 

Ortiz may turn out to be a good player but in his very brief playing time in the majors, I haven’t seen anything that makes me confident that he is a guaranteed major leaguer. There are plenty of 5’9 middle infielders with average power and average speed in the minors. I don’t see the attraction. 

[Tony-OH]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:40 AM, Aristotelian said:

What value does Urias have if Ortiz is playing every day? Vs LHP you could bench Gunnar but do we really want to do that? If we could get a bullpen arm back for Urias would that change your answer of whether we are better off with Urias vs Mateo as the last guy? 

Urias is he guy I'd be trying to shop for a reliever. I'd throw in Stowers or a Norby if it meant getting an impact guy into the pen for the stretch run.

[CaptainRedbeard]

I think it’s possible to have Henderson, Holliday, Ortiz and Westburg all coexist on the same roster and get essentially full playing time, if Westburg is also playing some 1B/OF. You can protect Henderson/Holliday against tough lefties and Ortiz/Westburg against tough righties, and you have depth in case of an injury. There are always injuries and Elias/Hyde have clearly demonstrated with their MLB roster management that (1) they highly value depth and (2) they prefer to rotate guys through DH as a breather rather than having a set DH. This would put Westburg in somewhat of a Ben Zobrist / Chris Taylor / DJ LeMahieu role as a full time player without a set position, so it’s not unprecedented. 

Keeping all of Westburg, Ortiz and Holliday also gives us depth in case one of them doesn’t translate to the MLB level. They are all great prospects but there are no guarantees. 

That being said, it isn’t the most efficient way to get value out of all 4 of these guys, especially since it now seems like Westburg can be an asset defensively and not just a bat that can sufficiently handle 2B/3B. We would be better served trading one of Westburg/Ortiz as the centerpiece to land an impact SP. However, there isn’t a need to force the issue, and the more I think about it the more I think it’s possible that this is how the Orioles plan to approach it. 

[Sanity Check]

9 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Ortiz isn’t going anywhere. Elias values premium defense too much. Especially at a premium position. We were just reminded that with the draft. Ortiz is also now hitting cleanup in AAA. 

Ortiz will be our 4th IF, and in the Urias role, next year. Gunnar, Holliday, and Westburg will be the “starters”. Ortiz will play against all LH SP and sprinkled in versus RHP. He’ll also be a late game defensive sub. Urias and Mateo will get moved before OD over the off season. 

Ortiz has a definitive role and a valuable role as well with us next year and the future. We aren’t giving away a premium defender at SS. 

He’s untouchable. 

Mateo is a premium defender at short.  You don't see us giving him away, either?

[orioles22]

12 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Ortiz isn’t going anywhere. Elias values premium defense too much. Especially at a premium position. We were just reminded that with the draft. Ortiz is also now hitting cleanup in AAA. 

Ortiz will be our 4th IF, and in the Urias role, next year. Gunnar, Holliday, and Westburg will be the “starters”. Ortiz will play against all LH SP and sprinkled in versus RHP. He’ll also be a late game defensive sub. Urias and Mateo will get moved before OD over the off season. 

Ortiz has a definitive role and a valuable role as well with us next year and the future. We aren’t giving away a premium defender at SS. 

He’s untouchable. 

Westburg has looked good, but I'm not sure he's better than Ortiz overall.

[forphase1]

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Mateo is a premium defender at short.  You don't see us giving him away, either?

Ortiz is MUCH more valuable.  Glove is about the same, but the bat has much more potential to be impactful than Mateo.  We've seen what Mateo is...can be SUPER hot for a short period of time, then revert to one of the worst hitters in the league for all the rest of the time.  Mateo should be gone, even if we don't get much for him.  There are others I'd trade before him, but he's not someone I'm struggling to keep on the keep either.

[NCRaven]

If Terrance Gore is Mateo’s best comp, I’d dump him tomorrow.

[AlbNYfan]

2 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Ortiz is MUCH more valuable.  Glove is about the same, but the bat has much more potential to be impactful than Mateo.  We've seen what Mateo is...can be SUPER hot for a short period of time, then revert to one of the worst hitters in the league for all the rest of the time.  Mateo should be gone, even if we don't get much for him.  There are others I'd trade before him, but he's not someone I'm struggling to keep on the keep either.

First of all, I don't really care which way the O's go. Mateo has had his opportunity and hasn't used it to make a strong case keep him. It is hard to state IMO though that Ortiz is MUCH more valuable. IMO potential, is not a measurable stat and mostly an emotional belief. Ortiz may be a very good defensive SS, but I doubt he is at Mateo's level. Height alone would seem to indicate not. I haven't seen enough of Ortiz to compare, but Mateo has a gun of an arm. Also, Ortiz does not have the speed or base stealing abilities of Mateo. So, it comes down to Ortiz offensive ability. I hope is minor league stats translates well to the bigs. SSS, but in 34 AB's with the O's, zero walks. his minor league walk rate is about 9.5%. With all that said, I'd rather have Gunnar at SS, Urias at 3rd, Westburg/Frazier at 2nd. I hope the O's don't experiment with Ortiz as a regular SS during a pennant race.