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Ortiz down, Stowers up

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm fine with that, I'm just also fine with Santander being treated similarly.  He's been hitting 3rd and 4th all season.

Agreed. They’re in the same boat as far as I’m concerned. Neither are hitting and both are providing below average defense. Santander’s only advantage is he can stand in the OF. 

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RZNJ
RZNJ

The roster has been mismanaged into an 18-9 start.   Stowers batting cleanup today in RF and O’Hearn at DH.  I assume Santander is not 100%.  

Frobby
Frobby

Honestly, imagine the criticism if the team wasn’t playing well.  

Pickles
Pickles

Whether the team is winning or losing, some people's primary purpose for posting is to posit they could be doing it better.

Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The tendency, among fans, to blame injuries for certain players' struggling (Santander, Hays, Mancini) while not giving the same leeway to others (Mountcastle, Stewart).

Santander and Hays have had reported injuries and missed games or spent time on DL. Santander has also had a steep drop in production whereas Mountcastle's production has been pretty steady. Not sure what double standard you are seeing.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Santander and Hays have had reported injuries and missed games or spent time on DL. Santander has also had a steep drop in production whereas Mountcastle's production has been pretty steady. Not sure what double standard you are seeing.

You think Elias and Hyde would run out an injured player?

 

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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Is it out of the question, that there was a slight disconnect with Hyde and Elias? Hyde not putting Stowers in the lineup as much as expected, now Elias’ is bringing up Stowers and directing Hyde to play him regularly after Stowers mashes for a week in Triple A?

Probably wishful thinking on my part. 

Edited by ChuckS
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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

Posted
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An interesting thread to read through.

I'm fine with this move as long as Stowers is going to get "mostly" everyday PAs including at bats against lefties. Stowers has shown if he plays everyday he will produce. He has not shown the ability to be productive part-time, something many players struggle with.

Ortiz's demotion is a product of having an $8 million Frazier that Elias still feel a need to play. I do think most of the Elias "roster mismanagement" conversation starts with Elias's poor offseason and unneeded signing of Frazier. 

Even now, Frazier is miscast as an everyday player, but his salary dictates that he will be for the most part. As many of said when he was signed, even if Elias didn't believe in Mateo, he had plenty of internal options to overcome him if he struggled.

I mean, right now, who believes Frazier makes this team better than Ortiz? 

By sending Ortiz back to AAA, he's saying that he was no going to get everyday PAs and that's because between he already has four guys for three infield positions right now. This goes back to Elias' poor offseason where he was unwilling or unable to move guys that may have freed up this playing time allowing players like Ortiz and even Westburg to be in the majors contributing vs making Norfolk the best AAA team in all of baseball.

Now saying all that, the Orioles are 18-9 and playing very well so you can't be too down on Elias' major league roster moves. 

The way the team is made up right now, and knowing that Frazier is going nowhere anytime soon, sending Ortiz back down makes sense. If the plan is for Stowers to be an everyday player, including against left-handed pitching, then I applaud that move as well.

As I said before, there are plenty of PAs for him, Santander, and Hays and at the very least this should end Frazier playing corner outfield in anything but an emergency.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

You think Elias and Hyde would run out an injured player?

 

Depends on the injury and the player. Injuries are not a black and white thing, like you are injured one day and then 100% another day. I do not believe Hyde or Elias would put a player at risk of aggravating an injury by playing but I do believe Hays has played with nagging injuries, yes. 

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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6 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Is it out of the question, that there was a slight disconnect with Hyde and Elias? Hyde not putting Stowers in the lineup as much as expected, now Elias’ is bringing up Stowers and directing Hyde to play him regularly after Stowers mashes for a week in Triple A?

Probably wishful thinking on my part. 

It just depends on what you believe I guess. They said Hyde is given information (read as given a lineup) on the lineup but he has final call. In other words, he can decide if a guy is dinged up or not feeling well and can adjust the lineup. I doubt very much though that he was pulling Stowers out of the lineup at the beginning of the year because he just didn't believe in him. 

I think Hyde does very little to overturn the apple cart with information he's given on lineups.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Depends on the injury and the player. Injuries are not a black and white thing, like you are injured one day and then 100% another day. I do not believe Hyde or Elias would put a player at risk of aggravating an injury by playing but I do believe Hays has played with nagging injuries, yes. 

If Santander has nagging injuries and is struggling because of them why would they not put him on the 15 day IL when they have other options on the 40 that can fill in?

It's not as if they don't have other options and a hobbled Santander is being forced out there.

It doesn't make sense.

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It just depends on what you believe I guess. They said Hyde is given information (read as given a lineup) on the lineup but he has final call. In other words, he can decide if a guy is dinged up or not feeling well and can adjust the lineup. I doubt very much though that he was pulling Stowers out of the lineup at the beginning of the year because he just didn't believe in him. 

I think Hyde does very little to overturn the apple cart with information he's given on lineups.

Makes sense. The sudden change of heart on Stowers, just seems odd after he was so quickly buried and demoted. Brought back up after just a week or two in Norfolk and batting fourth. There doesn’t seem to be a clear rhyme or reason for his treatment. 

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

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49 minutes ago, waroriole said:

My main criticism of Mountcastle is Hyde’s perception of him. He’s fine in the proper role (batting 6 or 7) and getting days off more frequently. If he’s struggling, I’d like to see more guys cycled into the lineup and Mountcastle lowered in the order when he plays. 

I think the Orioles may have some weird analytics voodoo going on with the roster. Like weird matchup specifics where they are even considering defenders and first up bullpen guys on the other team. Just a hunch. 

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