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Has Gunnar's struggles slowed the promotion of other O's prospects?

wildcard

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The club has major and obvious needs right now and have all season, despite the winning, and they still aren’t getting their chances. 

The winning kind of proves your premise false.

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Pickles
Pickles

No, because Elias surely had a plan in place for prospects individually. What it should have done, but hasn't really, is educate the board on why you don't just roll with a lineup of 4-6 rookies

Bemorewins
Bemorewins

If you look at the situation from an industry wide view as opposed to is being a simple Orioles centric issue, you will find that Gunnar and Grayson’s struggles are pretty much par for the course. The

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

No. Elias isn't stupid.

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deward Major Leaguer Rising Star

deward

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2 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Numbers were a couple weeks old.  Maybe the guy on the video got his stats from somewhere else, but they are very good analysts on prospects and I listen to them a lot.  I seriously doubt Gunnar is hitting offspeed to an .800 OPS after struggling so mighty early in the year.  Will have to look into it more because he has really struggled at "hitting" and has only been saved by his ability to draw walks.

I mean...you can doubt it, but Baseball Savant is a pretty authoritative source. He isn't being "saved" by walks on offspeed stuff, he's legitimately hitting those pitches. It's the breaking stuff that he's struggling to make hard contact with.

These are the definitions that Baseball Savant is using for pitch types:

image.png.941a77fffb850920bca5dee25d498113.png

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SemperFi Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

SemperFi

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5 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

What pitches are included in "breaking" pitches?  I assume curveball, slider, forkball.  I'm sure I'm missing others.  Listening to this video, it was educational how much young hitters struggle against a good slider.  Some experienced hitters never learn to hit a good slider (Jones and Mountcastle are prime examples).  I'm sure a major key to hitting sliders is laying off sliders outside the zone. 

That was the most difficult adjustment for me from HS to college-huge difference in speed/break/recognition and that was pretty much the end of my college career.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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5 hours ago, Pickles said:

The winning kind of proves your premise false.

That’s actually complete bs. You have zero idea if they would be doing better..or have more margin for error long term. 

Now, they could be worse too..who knows but that’s the point.

They would unquestionably be more talented and have a higher ceiling overall.

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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1 minute ago, Baltimorecuse said:

I didn't know the Greeks played baseball.  I look at OPS and ERA relative to everyone else.  

Is there some trig function I'm missing?

Are you actually ignorant of the term as it is used in baseball?

Also:

276px-Hellinikon_Stadium.jpg

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justD Hangout Grand Counsel

justD

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21 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s a shame people on this site put so much value in SSS.

I also find it funny that people want to blow Elias because of how great he is at building a farm system and then they scoff at the idea that the players they laud can come up here and be helpful…that somehow all of these highly ranked, talented players are actually completely poop and not actually very good.

The “logic” is hysterical and the inconsistency is complete and utter bs.

Except that a lot of the building of a farm system is related to having chips to trade when the big club starts looking like contenders.  Bring up the guys prior to the deadline and they're exposed, go through the usual transitional difficulties, and lose a significant amount of value. 

Perhaps holding these guys down is just timing, to see which are bringing the most interest and might be traded for a SP in late July?

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s actually complete bs. You have zero idea if they would be doing better..or have more margin for error long term. 

Now, they could be worse too..who knows but that’s the point.

They would unquestionably be more talented and have a higher ceiling overall.

 

Maybe it's semantics but what "major and obvious" holes does this club have that are easily resolved internally?

The biggest "holes" on the roster are 1b performance and SP pitching and BP depth.

We tried to upgrade our starting staff with our own prospects.  That didn't go well.

Grayson certainly has more talent and a higher ceiling than our other pitchers, but he performed worse.  That's because performance, and thus winning and losing, are not dependent on solely talent and ceiling.

In most other organizations, Westburg and Ortiz would probably be in the big leagues.  But that's not the point.  As long as this team is on pace to win 100+ games, and Frazier, Mateo, and Urias are performing like above average regulars, then they're not going to be replaced.

It will take an injury.  And for Ortiz that already happened.  He hasn't played since he was sent down, no?  There might be something there and he might be here instead of Vavra if not.  The same is true of Cowser.  If he was healthy, it might be different.

I feel bad for Westburg I guess, but take everything I just said about Ortiz and add another impediment, Ortiz himself.

They're on pace to win 100+ games.  Why don't you try enjoying that instead of subjecting us to how much better you could be doing it? ;) 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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9 minutes ago, justD said:

Except that a lot of the building of a farm system is related to having chips to trade when the big club starts looking like contenders.  Bring up the guys prior to the deadline and they're exposed, go through the usual transitional difficulties, and lose a significant amount of value. 

Perhaps holding these guys down is just timing, to see which are bringing the most interest and might be traded for a SP in late July?

I don't buy that narrative.

Westburg's trade value isn't going to be appreciably different if he goes 5-20 with four strikeouts or 2-20 with seven.

Other teams already have their evaluations, a bit of ML service time isn't going to do much to change it.

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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2 hours ago, waroriole said:

No it doesn’t. Teams can have obvious weaknesses and be good overall. 

I mean, sure, but the same question then as I asked SG:

What are the "major" and "obvious" "holes" than can be easily rectified by calling some guys up?

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't buy that narrative.

Westburg's trade value isn't going to be appreciably different if he goes 5-20 with four strikeouts or 2-20 with seven.

Other teams already have their evaluations, a bit of ML service time isn't going to do much to change it.

Westburg's problem is he isn't on the 40 man.

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