Trading for a rental vs a longer term asset

[wildcard]

56 minutes ago, deward said:

I think Stowers has some value. Secondary piece, rather than centerpiece value, but still value.

Stowers could increase his value by getting back on the field for the next month.  Even if its at AAA.

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I agree but weird aside?

I just brought it up because we’re in a thread about trading.  I think treating Stowers as a tertiary piece might be trading low.  

By the way, he played a rehab game in the FCL yesterday, so hopefully he can get back to putting up numbers in Norfolk soon.  He’s obviously got more value if he’s healthy.  
 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

I just brought it up because we’re in a thread about trading.  I think treating Stowers as a tertiary piece might be trading low.  

By the way, he played a rehab game in the FCL yesterday, so hopefully he can get back to putting up numbers in Norfolk soon.  He’s obviously got more value if he’s healthy.  
 

I'm all for them getting more value for Stowers.

I'm just saying that, to me, he's more of a tertiary piece. 

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m not sure how much you’ve been keeping tabs on both players but I just took a quick glance. Eduardo made his first rehab start yesterday and went 4 1/3 scoreless, while Max Fried looks to be just starting some bullpen sessions.

I’m not sure how much this says where each are in the recovery process in terms of returning to what they were this season pre-injury?

I'd shy away from Fried. I'm not a Dr, but if I remember correctly his injury seems to point to TJ surgery.

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, deward said:

I think Stowers has some value. Secondary piece, rather than centerpiece value, but still value.

Yeah, I wasn't clear enough but they have some throw in value... just not enough to headline any deal.

 

I wouldn't lump Norby in with the other 3.

[FlipTheBird]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Recent for me means this year, especially for any pitcher, who hasn’t shown year to year consistent success (like Rodriguez and Cease).

You make a great point about the injury. If he is able to return by the break, he should be able to make around 3 starts by the deadline. I hope that is enough time for our evaluators to get a good feel for where he is.

If Cease happens to be the best that we can pull off, I’m fine with that as well. His price point should be less this year given the season that he has had as compared to last year.

Dylan Cease’s price is what makes him unlikely. Every team in the race would be happy to have the guy if not for the prospect cost. He is incredibly more valuable than Eduardo Rodriguez.

[Frobby]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm all for them getting more value for Stowers.

I'm just saying that, to me, he's more of a tertiary piece. 

And I’m saying, he’s a tertiary piece right now because he performed poorly in the majors this year in limited chances and because he’s been on the IL for a month.  I think he can be more than that if he gets back to Norfolk and puts up good numbers.  But honestly, I might be seeing things with orange-colored glasses.  Both Cowser and Kjerstad are putting up significantly better numbers than Stowers has in AAA.

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Dylan Cease’s price is what makes him unlikely. Every team in the race would be happy to have the guy if not for the prospect cost. He is incredibly more valuable than Eduardo Rodriguez.

I guess in the coming weeks we will find out who is available and who is not.

As far price is concerned, I haven’t heard that the CHI SOX or even making him available key alone what he will cost.

What have you heard/suspect will be the cost for Cease?

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And I’m saying, he’s a tertiary piece right now because he performed poorly in the majors this year in limited chances and because he’s been on the IL for a month.  I think he can be more than that if he gets back to Norfolk and puts up good numbers.  But honestly, I might be seeing things with orange-colored glasses.  Both Cowser and Kjerstad are putting up significantly better numbers than Stowers has in AAA.

I’m no serious fan of Stowers, but it may be a little unfair to compare him to those 2 players.

Would you say that they are much more talented/higher rated players? From everything that I have seen, heard, and read that seems to be the case.

I remember reading and hearing when Kjerstad was drafted that the bat was advanced to the point that he could have hit in the bigs then. I also Denver hearing the AA manager saying that his bat was ready for the bigs right now.

I never heard any of this kind of stuff about Stowers. Maybe it was said/written and I missed it though?

[deward]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I view him as a limited up and down guy that you stash at AAA for injury insurance.

I think that's underrating him. I don't know what he would have done so far to suggest that as a ceiling, unless you're putting a ton on emphasis on those 30 AB's this past April.

[deward]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And I’m saying, he’s a tertiary piece right now because he performed poorly in the majors this year in limited chances and because he’s been on the IL for a month.  I think he can be more than that if he gets back to Norfolk and puts up good numbers.  But honestly, I might be seeing things with orange-colored glasses.  Both Cowser and Kjerstad are putting up significantly better numbers than Stowers has in AAA.

I would imagine that most people would expect Cowser and Kjerstad to outperform Stowers, as they are considered better prospects by any consensus. The .884 OPS Stowers put up in Norfolk last year doesn't seem like anything to scoff at though. Or the .863 in limited time this year. He would have been the O's top prospect on many occasions over the past 30 years (more of an indictment of the org, I realize). I agree that, if he continues to hit at least that well in Norfolk, someone would likely see him as a useful asset.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m no serious fan of Stowers, but it may be a little unfair to compare him to those 2 players.

Would you say that they are much more talented/higher rated players? From everything that I have seen, heard, and read that seems to be the case.

I remember reading and hearing when Kjerstad was drafted that the bat was advanced to the point that he could have hit in the bigs then. I also Denver hearing the AA manager saying that his bat was ready for the bigs right now.

I never heard any of this kind of stuff about Stowers. Maybe it was said/written and I missed it though?

Of course Cowser and Kjerstad are higher rated players.  My only reason to mention them was to put Stowers’ AAA numbers into context for considering his trade value. 

At the major league level, Stowers looked respectable last year in somewhat limited playing time (.724 OPS and rising as the season closed out).  This year, he looked badly overmatched (.218 OPS) in very limited playing time.  But at the minor league level, playing every day, he’s been pretty much the same player both years.  .884 OPS lastBut  year, .863 this year.  That suggests to me that Stowers’ major league struggles this year are sort of fluky, and that last year’s numbers are probably a better measure of who he could be.  But if you compare the current situation to the one at the beginning of the year:

1.  Stowers had posted an .884 OPS at Norfolk, while Cowser was at .767, so going into 2023 Stowers seemed more ready to help the big league club.  

2.  Kjerstad still hadn’t played above HiA, where he struggled.  (Though he did have a very good Arizona Fall League performance.   He didn’t appear very close to ready to helping the major league team.  

3.  Now, you’ve got Cowser at 1.004 OPS in 245 PA at AAA, and Kjerstad at .973 in 82 PA.  So, I’d say if the O’s needed an OF to step into the lineup right now, Cowser is ready and would deserve a call-up more than Stowers.  Kjerstad is getting closer.  

4.  The Hicks pickup also hurts Stowers.

So, I think Stowers’ window to get to the majors and carve out a role with the O’s may have closed.  He was never as talented as Cowser or Kjerstad but he was ahead of them on the experience curve and had performed well enough in the minors to get up and maybe establish himself.   But now, he may be more valuable to another team lacking in OF depth.  

I can still see him being a .750ish OPS guy at the major league level, given the right opportunity.  
 

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Of course Cowser and Kjerstad are higher rated players.  My only reason to mention them was to put Stowers’ AAA numbers into context for considering his trade value. 

At the major league level, Stowers looked respectable last year in somewhat limited playing time (.724 OPS and rising as the season closed out).  This year, he looked badly overmatched (.218 OPS) in very limited playing time.  But at the minor league level, playing every day, he’s been pretty much the same player both years.  .884 OPS lastBut  year, .863 this year.  That suggests to me that Stowers’ major league struggles this year are sort of fluky, and that last year’s numbers are probably a better measure of who he could be.  But if you compare the current situation to the one at the beginning of the year:

1.  Stowers had posted an .884 OPS at Norfolk, while Cowser was at .767, so going into 2023 Stowers seemed more ready to help the big league club.  

2.  Kjerstad still hadn’t played above HiA, where he struggled.  (Though he did have a very good Arizona Fall League performance.   He didn’t appear very close to ready to helping the major league team.  

3.  Now, you’ve got Cowser at 1.004 OPS in 245 PA at AAA, and Kjerstad at .973 in 82 PA.  So, I’d say if the O’s needed an OF to step into the lineup right now, Cowser is ready and would deserve a call-up more than Stowers.  Kjerstad is getting closer.  

4.  The Hicks pickup also hurts Stowers.

So, I think Stowers’ window to get to the majors and carve out a role with the O’s may have closed.  He was never as talented as Cowser or Kjerstad but he was ahead of them on the experience curve and had performed well enough in the minors to get up and maybe establish himself.   But now, he may be more valuable to another team lacking in OF depth.  

I can still see him being a .750ish OPS guy at the major league level, given the right opportunity.  
 

He may have been ahead of them in terms of having spent more time at AAA before them thus being positioned for a call up ahead of them. But I guess what I am saying is that, they were always going to be “ahead” when they arrive thus displacing him from the major league OF.

I agree that it will be best to move him and get whatever value that we can for him because he doesn’t seem to have a place here now or long term.

It’s possible that he could be a decent player elsewhere and hopefully he is given the opportunity to show that. 

I think that the same is true for Varva (maybe not as high a ceiling as Stowers) and also Ortiz. They all are probably decent Major League players, there are just better players than them either here or in the Minors. 

I hope that they all get a chance and shine wherever they go, I just can’t see that being here. Unfortunately I don’t think that any of the 3 are good enough to stick here based on what is being built.

[Just Regular]

Buck's Mets just keep losing, and Scherzer is making noises like he hasn't got any Octobers to waste at his advanced age.

Verlander hasn't chimed in yet in that regard, at least not that I've seen reported, and these two Clubs already have one Buy Side transaction under their belts.

To the extent the Nationals and Orioles are like poorly behaved 6 year olds, you might also imagine Scherzer coming back to the MASN family of networks could add some juice for Angelos to check the couch cushions again.

https://www.si.com/mlb/mets/news/new-york-mets-max-scherzer-waive-no-trade-clause-matt9

[AnythingO's]

JR, you just put Scherzer, MASN, and Angelos in the SAME sentence, with a semi-hopeful spin, lol! I'll have some of whatever you are drinking but pass on any JA hope!