Update on the lease negotiations

[Fan4Life]

7 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Money is invested but does it go to the right places. This is top 100 school districts,because many smaller districts invest more money. 

 

2019:

The Census Bureau last month published an updated breakdown of school districts’ per-pupil funding levels. At $15,168 per student, it showed Baltimore in fifth place among the 100 largest school systems — behind New York, Boston and both Howard and Montgomery counties — two wealthier Maryland suburbs.

So lots of money and poor results... 

[baltfan]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Attendance back then was almost three times the attendance last season. 

Those teams didn't lose money.

True,but that doesn’t mean you have to spend at the levels Angelos did. 

[SemperFi]

1 hour ago, baltfan said:

They want to model after a successful similar thing in Atlanta. There is also a somewhat similar area in DC.  Everyone is always looking to make more money but I doubt this is just a lining pockets situation especially since there will have to be bids for whatever work and the State will likely have to follow established guidelines for choosing between those bids. 

Except the "Battery" has not really been successful and it is in the suburbs closer to their fanbase.  Cobb county is essentially is exchanging revenue that would have gone to Atlanta but hoping for an revenue increase with safer, easier access, more entertainment options with all the sales tax going to Cobb.

Baltimore/Maryland is a different story as all that all exists, they need a massive influx of consumers going or staying downtown which is contrary to all demographic trends I have seen.  Baltimore in that respect is no different than a big box retailer that might get one visit a month from a consumer but if they can drive another visit it's worth $100.  The Baltimore question is whether they are just trading taxes within the city as opposed to entertainment dollars/taxes gained from elsewhere.  

 

[Going Underground]

9 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

Except the "Battery" has not really been successful and it is in the suburbs closer to their fanbase.  Cobb county is essentially is exchanging revenue that would have gone to Atlanta but hoping for an revenue increase with safer, easier access, more entertainment options with all the sales tax going to Cobb.

Baltimore/Maryland is a different story as all that all exists, they need a massive influx of consumers going or staying downtown which is contrary to all demographic trends I have seen.  Baltimore in that respect is no different than a big box retailer that might get one visit a month from a consumer but if they can drive another visit it's worth $100.  The Baltimore question is whether they are just trading taxes within the city as opposed to entertainment dollars/taxes gained from elsewhere.  

 

Plus the Battery was build  with no public money. Braves real estate arm and other investors. Is Angelos going to put up some money and how much? I don't see him putting any money into Camden Yards like the Braves did.

The Braves estimated the ballpark cost approximately $722 million to build with $330 coming from the team and $392 million from Cobb County, the Cumberland Improvement District and the Exhibit Hall Authority.

[SemperFi]

Sorry, forgot the attachments ! !

The second attachment is dated but gives you an idea of the impact of the original Camden  Yards.

"Sports facilities attract neither tourists nor new industry. Probably the most successful export facility is Oriole Park, where about a third of the crowd at every game comes from outside the Baltimore area. Even so, the net gain to Baltimore's economy in terms of new jobs and incremental tax revenues is only about $3 million a year--not much of a return on a $200 million investment."

https://tinyurl.com/42d93ey2

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-braves-truist-park-is-latest-ballpark-to-prove-tax-dollars-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/

[SilentJames]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

Money is invested but does it go to the right places. This is top 100 school districts,because many smaller districts invest more money. 

 

2019:

The Census Bureau last month published an updated breakdown of school districts’ per-pupil funding levels. At $15,168 per student, it showed Baltimore in fifth place among the 100 largest school systems — behind New York, Boston and both Howard and Montgomery counties — two wealthier Maryland suburbs.

1) most school districts in the country aren’t run like MD. MD is weird because everything is on a county level, most places in the country a “school district,” is like 8-10 schools, singling out the largest school district ls is like saying “The 2021 Orioles has the best record in the MLB, of teams that play in MD” 

when compared to all districts the city is more to the median  

2) that number seems high, but I would also remind you that average tuition for private schools is roughly the same  MSJ for instance is over 19k a year, and that doesn’t include other programs and such. 
 

 

[HakunaSakata]

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-angelos-orioles-lease-20230810-lqp5hwcnhna4vp2uwsx54rclhu-story.html

[BRobinsonfan]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:45 AM, webbrick2010 said:

The downtown commercial real estate market is crashing.

Only the government would throw 600 million dollars down this money pit

As taxpayers we should be screaming to cancel this 600 million dollar boondoggle.

 

It is?  What data are you looking at?  According to the MacKenzie report, Baltimore commercial real estate is doing quite well.  And while home buying has slowed it has not "crashed." https://www.mackenziecommercial.com/wp-content/uploads/Market-Report-2023_Q2_Full-Report-2.pdf

[OriolesMagic83]

On 8/9/2023 at 10:32 AM, Fan4Life said:

So lots of money and poor results... 

State of Maryland could say that about the O's too.

[webbrick2010]

11 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

It is?  What data are you looking at?  According to the MacKenzie report, Baltimore commercial real estate is doing quite well.  And while home buying has slowed it has not "crashed." https://www.mackenziecommercial.com/wp-content/uploads/Market-Report-2023_Q2_Full-Report-2.pdf

 

[BohKnowsBmore]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:29 PM, SemperFi said:

Sorry, forgot the attachments ! !

The second attachment is dated but gives you an idea of the impact of the original Camden  Yards.

"Sports facilities attract neither tourists nor new industry. Probably the most successful export facility is Oriole Park, where about a third of the crowd at every game comes from outside the Baltimore area. Even so, the net gain to Baltimore's economy in terms of new jobs and incremental tax revenues is only about $3 million a year--not much of a return on a $200 million investment."

https://tinyurl.com/42d93ey2

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-braves-truist-park-is-latest-ballpark-to-prove-tax-dollars-should-not-be-used-on-stadiums/

One thing these analyses exclude is the impact a downtown revitalization program with a stadium at the center (like OPACY) has on decision-making to live in the city in the first place.  When I lived in the city (Federal Hill right out of college), being able to walk to an O's game after work was definitely a part of the basket of activities that made living in the city attractive. 

[BRobinsonfan]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

 

Oh, so a guy calling himself RealEstate Ninja selling an on-line video course on how to make money in a down market says its crashing.  Well, ya' got me there I guess. 

[fansince1988]

Interesting article on WTOP 

https://wtop.com/baltimore-orioles/2023/08/state-high-on-sealing-deal-with-orioles-but-light-on-specifics/

[Going Underground]

51 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

Interesting article on WTOP 

https://wtop.com/baltimore-orioles/2023/08/state-high-on-sealing-deal-with-orioles-but-light-on-specifics/

Seems mostly a CYA article. Saying almost nothing new but saying it is getting closer. Have heard that before and some people in the Maryland House and Senate are getting impatient like Bill Ferguson. Interesting that Wes Moore is now saying we also must do right by the taxpayers. So I bet no more joint statements till the deal is finalized.

[Sports Guy]

One thing I recently saw that I don’t think has been talked about much is that there is a clause in this agreement that if the Os get a better deal, that the Ravens are also subject to the same deal.

So, if JA was able to get another 300M, that means the Ravens get another 300M.

Just another reason this doesn’t seem very likely.