Blue Jays 4-game series

[Baltimorecuse]

8 hours ago, SteveA said:

I think you can now add historic to the adjectives to describe this team.  

There's only one team with a winning record against us this season in the AL.  We're one game up on all NL rivals.  

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, SteveA said:

I think you can now add historic to the adjectives to describe this team.  

Is it just me, or is this a record that nobody had ever mentioned in any context ever prior to about two weeks ago? I mean, it's kind of cool and all, but the O's are still 51 series short of the record.  The '44 Cards better look out for June of '24, the O's are comin'!

And there's a hint of "one of these things is not like the other" in that all of the other teams besides the Orioles played in one or more World Series. So it's a little like those lists of X homers, Y steals, Z triples, and 19 or more sac hits that end up lumping together Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, and Claudell Washington. 

This is one of those things that became a thing because Retrosheet and bb-ref data has become more complete and data analysis tools made it easier to figure this out without spending six weeks pouring over box scores.

You're welcome for the bucket of cold water. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Is it just me, or is this a record that nobody had ever mentioned in any context ever prior to about two weeks ago? I mean, it's kind of cool and all, but the O's are still 51 series short of the record.  The '44 Cards better look out for June of '24, the O's are comin'!

And there's a hint of "one of these things is not like the other" in that all of the other teams besides the Orioles played in one or more World Series. So it's a little like those lists of X homers, Y steals, Z triples, and 19 or more sac hits that end up lumping together Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, and Claudell Washington. 

This is one of those things that became a thing because Retrosheet and bb-ref data has become more complete and data analysis tools made it easier to figure this out without spending six weeks pouring over box scores.

You're welcome for the bucket of cold water. 

Obviously a team that is never swept is going to have a great record and considering that only two teams in baseball made the playoffs pre 196  I’d say the odds of such a team making the WS were much better than they would be in the age of 12 playoff teams.

[emmett16]

17 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Is it just me, or is this a record that nobody had ever mentioned in any context ever prior to about two weeks ago? I mean, it's kind of cool and all, but the O's are still 51 series short of the record.  The '44 Cards better look out for June of '24, the O's are comin'!

And there's a hint of "one of these things is not like the other" in that all of the other teams besides the Orioles played in one or more World Series. So it's a little like those lists of X homers, Y steals, Z triples, and 19 or more sac hits that end up lumping together Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, and Claudell Washington. 

This is one of those things that became a thing because Retrosheet and bb-ref data has become more complete and data analysis tools made it easier to figure this out without spending six weeks pouring over box scores.

You're welcome for the bucket of cold water. 

I thought it was darn impressive…..until I saw what the Cardinals did. Now THAT is darn impressive. 

[Moshagge3]

12 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I thought it was darn impressive…..until I saw what the Cardinals did. Now THAT is darn impressive. 

Eh, baseball in 1944 doesn't count. While everybody good was storming the beaches of Normandy, MLB games were played between teams of guys who were draft-ineligible for flat feet and being blind in one eye. (This is possibly an exaggeration.)

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Eh, baseball in 1944 doesn't count. While everybody good was storming the beaches of Normandy, MLB games were played between teams of guys who were draft-ineligible for flat feet and being blind in one eye. (This is possibly an exaggeration.)

I think you inadvertently stumbled across a significant footnote to this story. Looking at the Cards' rosters from 1942-45, they kept most of their stars for most of the war. Stan Musial only missed 1945. He was putting up prime, peak inner circle HOF seasons from 1942-44 during this run. Walker Cooper was one of the better catchers in the NL, same thing. Marty Marion won the 1944 MVP, weirdly because he OPS'd .686.  But he never went into the Army.  Walker Cooper was one of the best catchers in the NL, only missed part of '45.  Harry Breechen was a very good pitcher, and pitched all of '43-45. Walker's brother Mort was a pitcher and won 22, 21, and 22 games in '42-44, never went to war. Max Lanier was their 2nd or 3rd-best starter, never got drafted.

I swear I've read something about this before, but I think someone on the Cards was friendly with the local draft board. When most of the rest of the stars were in the Army, they kept most of theirs through the whole war.

[Just Regular]

I didn't know any of the inside baseball stuff but seeing wartime Cardinals "Barry Bonds"-ing this list my first thought was they were benefitting from that thing Branch Rickey invented called a "farm system" around then.

Rickey made his St. Louis to Brooklyn move sometime in '42.

[FlaO'sFan]

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by FlaO'sFan

[Baltimorecuse]

I want to get it down early.  GR is going to dominate tonight.  

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Baltimorecuse said:

I want to get it down early.  GR is going to dominate tonight.  

He’s going to get bombed.  Trying to cancel your jinx.  Not good.

[Baltimorecuse]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He’s going to get bombed.  Trying to cancel your jinx.  Not good.

Given how far we're playing above our stats magic cannot be ignored.  

[tntoriole]

23 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think you inadvertently stumbled across a significant footnote to this story. Looking at the Cards' rosters from 1942-45, they kept most of their stars for most of the war. Stan Musial only missed 1945. He was putting up prime, peak inner circle HOF seasons from 1942-44 during this run. Walker Cooper was one of the better catchers in the NL, same thing. Marty Marion won the 1944 MVP, weirdly because he OPS'd .686.  But he never went into the Army.  Walker Cooper was one of the best catchers in the NL, only missed part of '45.  Harry Breechen was a very good pitcher, and pitched all of '43-45. Walker's brother Mort was a pitcher and won 22, 21, and 22 games in '42-44, never went to war. Max Lanier was their 2nd or 3rd-best starter, never got drafted.

I swear I've read something about this before, but I think someone on the Cards was friendly with the local draft board. When most of the rest of the stars were in the Army, they kept most of theirs through the whole war.

In that same 44 season , our team, the St Louis Browns , won their only pennant.  They had been planning just prior to Pearl Harbor to move to LA but the war intervened. They signed 4F players more than any other team and won the pennant.  In an all St Louis series, they lost in 6 games to that team who never lost a series. 
Ten years later?  33rd Street baby!! 

[DrungoHazewood]

18 hours ago, Just Regular said:

I didn't know any of the inside baseball stuff but seeing wartime Cardinals "Barry Bonds"-ing this list my first thought was they were benefitting from that thing Branch Rickey invented called a "farm system" around then.

Rickey made his St. Louis to Brooklyn move sometime in '42.

That's certainly part of it. The idea of a farm system was pretty controversial at the time. From the start of pro baseball the minor leagues were just like the major leagues, only in smaller cities, and often not even that (see: Baltimore in the International League in years where the city had a bigger population than Cincy or Washington). 

Then MLB teams started to convince minor league teams that it was easier to stay profitable if they sold their souls to the big leagues, and stopped trying to find players to win the pennant. A lot of folks in charge thought this was a terrible idea, that it would kill minor league baseball, and by extension ruin the grassroots popularity of the game. Which has pretty much come to pass over the last century. Commissioner Landis in particular was against this, and had a few instances of "freeing" minor leaguers caught up in this kind of thing.

But nevertheless, Branch Rickey led this charge to sweep up and assimilate vast numbers of minor league teams and hundreds upon hundreds of players. And that gave his teams a huge advantage. Other teams like the Senators and Browns didn't have the resources or the drive or maybe desire to do the same thing, and as late as the 1950s still had threadbare minor league systems. And these MLB teams struggled mightily to compete.

I've long thought that baseball as a sport would have been far better off if Landis had made a rule in about 1930 that MLB teams could only have one or two minor league affiliates, and all the other teams were independent and fighting for players and trophies.

[Oriole1940]

On 8/1/2023 at 8:33 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

Is it just me, or is this a record that nobody had ever mentioned in any context ever prior to about two weeks ago? I mean, it's kind of cool and all, but the O's are still 51 series short of the record.  The '44 Cards better look out for June of '24, the O's are comin'!

And there's a hint of "one of these things is not like the other" in that all of the other teams besides the Orioles played in one or more World Series. So it's a little like those lists of X homers, Y steals, Z triples, and 19 or more sac hits that end up lumping together Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb, and Claudell Washington. 

This is one of those things that became a thing because Retrosheet and bb-ref data has become more complete and data analysis tools made it easier to figure this out without spending six weeks pouring over box scores.

You're welcome for the bucket of cold water. 

And the 44 Cards record is skewed because many of MLB stars were in the military  WW2.   Even the Browns played in the 44 World series for the one and only time vs the Cards.  

[25 Nuggets]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:21 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I think you inadvertently stumbled across a significant footnote to this story. Looking at the Cards' rosters from 1942-45, they kept most of their stars for most of the war. Stan Musial only missed 1945. He was putting up prime, peak inner circle HOF seasons from 1942-44 during this run. Walker Cooper was one of the better catchers in the NL, same thing. Marty Marion won the 1944 MVP, weirdly because he OPS'd .686.  But he never went into the Army.  Walker Cooper was one of the best catchers in the NL, only missed part of '45.  Harry Breechen was a very good pitcher, and pitched all of '43-45. Walker's brother Mort was a pitcher and won 22, 21, and 22 games in '42-44, never went to war. Max Lanier was their 2nd or 3rd-best starter, never got drafted.

I swear I've read something about this before, but I think someone on the Cards was friendly with the local draft board. When most of the rest of the stars were in the Army, they kept most of theirs through the whole war.

Drungo!!!

Hi, long time no talk

You've always had the best history nuggets