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Sunday, August 27: Orioles go for sweep of Rockies

SteveA

By SteveA
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Malike
Malike

You folks have seen the same movie for the past 3 days and are still shocked at the ending.

Miami7851
Miami7851

Screw you Flaherty 

seak05
seak05

She's literally wearing a button that says it....

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ONUOsFan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

ONUOsFan

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Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Sucks to have Gunnar being the main reason the Rockies got the go ahead run there but it happens. 
 

I’ll take 2/3 every series.  Do that, we’ll win the division. 

Probably true. It’s just especially frustrating when you know it’s a bad team and, more to the point, a team TB just swept. 

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baltfan Hangout Grand Counsel

baltfan

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3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It was O'Hearn, and yes, he could have come off the bag and gotten to that but that's still on the throw. Gunnar had no reason to spin twirl there. Just an immature play that he will hopefully learn from. He has plenty of arm and got to that ball in plenty of time to plant his foot and make a more accurate throw.

I got the sense that he spun to redirect his momentum.  Can be hard to plant, stop your momentum, and throw there.  Ripken used to spin a lot on plays like that. 

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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1 minute ago, ONUOsFan said:

Probably true. It’s just especially frustrating when you know it’s a bad team and, more to the point, a team TB just swept. 

This is honest question. How long have you've been watching baseball. You do know that even the worse teams typically win 60 games in a season.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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Just now, baltfan said:

I got the sense that he spun to redirect his momentum.  Can be hard to plant, stop your momentum, and throw there.  Ripken used to spin a lot on plays like that. 

I know exactly why he did it, he just didn't need to especially in that situation. It's all about risk/reward. It's the top of the 9th, if he's on first ok, that stinks, but it's significantly worse with a runner on 2nd and no outs. No time for high risk spins moves. I didn't see how close the second baseman was but he also could have flipped it to him. It just ended up a real poor throw by Gunnar is a key situation. 

Then again, we've seen Mateo choke multiple times late in games on routine throws so it is what it kinda is. 

 

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    • Moose Milligan
      Grow the Bats? Grow the Arms? Both? Neither?

      By Moose Milligan · Posted

      If you look at what they've done, the answers to what the strategy is could be completely obvious. First, when it comes to drafting...it's just easier to scout, draft and develop hitters.  You've got a greater chance of getting an impact player with a bat instead of an arm.  Now I know some are going to nitpick that and say "Well Moose, what's your criteria for that?  What do you mean by that?" I'm not going to do the research because I'm lazy, but here's what I know:  We drafted Adley AND Gunnar in the same draft.  And Stowers.  And Joey Ortiz.   I challenge anyone here to find a team that drafted that much value in pitching talent in one draft in the past 20 years.  Adley and Gunnar, if they stay healthy and play long enough, are Hall of Fame level talents.  Stowers has been a good prospect that has been blocked.  Ortiz has an .824 OPS in Milwaukee and was considered by some to be the headline of the Burnes trade.  He was blocked here. I'm not going to say that the Orioles don't value pitching because that would be silly.  I just think they have some newer ideas on the value of pitching and what it means in the modern game.  All of what I'm about to unfurl here is just a hypothesis but in my mind, it makes sense. The days of having big time frontline aces are almost over.  There are some very good pitchers out there but the amount of innings these guys throw are way down and they've gone down significantly very quickly.  If you go back to 2010, the innings pitched leaders in the MLB were Roy Halladay (250.2), Felix Hernandez, (249.2) and CC Sabathia (237.2).  You have to go all the way down to 46th place to find a pitcher that didn't throw over 200 innings (Rowdy Rodrigo Lopez threw 200 innings on the dot, then Barry Zito was 46th at 199.1) By 2015, your innings pitched leaders were Kershaw (232.2) Keuchel, (232.0) and Arrieta (229).  28 pitchers threw over 200 innings. Last year it was Logan Webb (216), Gallen (210) and Cole (209).  There were only 5 total that threw 200 or higher, the other two were Miles Mikolas and Chris Bassitt.  Framber came in at 198.  I'm not sure if we can agree on who the true aces here are, but I know one is Cole.  Gallen and Webb are very good. But of course their salaries are increasing.  And here's a look at who the highest paid starting pitchers are for 2024: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/2024/03/12/mlb-highest-paid-starting-pitchers-2024-season-salary-rankings/72949843007/ Ohtani isn't throwing this year and a ton of his value comes from his bat.   I don't know if any of these guys are worth their contracts outside of Cole.  I'm pretty sure deGrom probably would be, but he's always hurt.  Cole, Castillo (3.34 ERA) Nola (4.46 ERA) were the only three to finish in the top 10 of innings pitched last year.  Corbin threw 180 innings of 5.20 ERA.   And while I love Corbin Burnes, I'm afraid that he'd join this list next year...a list of guys that, quite frankly, aren't worth the hefty contracts they're getting paid.  Maybe Burnes is the exception to the rule here, but it's quite a gamble to find out. Of course, the Tommy John Experience has been running rampant through the Majors this year and in the preceding years, too.  And teams are expected to spend this type of money for a guy who's inevitably going to have to miss 12-18 months for that?  Elias knows this.  Sig knows this.  Hell, YOU know this.   So I think what we're seeing from the Orioles side of things is a change on how they value pitching.  Not that they don't value it, they're just not going to be caught at any time giving out big contracts to guys that are supposed frontline aces.  Why would they? They're going to continue to draft bats first and they'll get pitching where they can and the answers might not always be the sexiest.  @Frobby posted that excerpt from Fangraphs which was interesting, I'm assuming that maybe it's a little slower to develop pitching, too...and that's why we haven't seen as much in our prospect ranking as we've seen with the bats. But if you look at what they did in the offseason, they traded Ortiz and Hall for Burnes.  I wouldn't be surprised if you see another trade similar to that this upcoming offseason, trading some of our 5th-10th ranked prospects for a frontline starter that has a year or two of control remaining.  If Elias can find a deal like that at the deadline this year, he'll pull the trigger then, too.  But don't be upset if he doesn't. Doing so allows the Orioles to win in a lot of areas:  We retain our top flight talent, we also get a pitcher that can lead the rotation and we're not tied to a guy for a big contract.  We're also avoiding big bucks spent on potential Tommy John cases as best as we can. So the answer is to grow the bats and buy some of the arms for not a whole lot of time.  There's risk in everything that you do as an MLB GM but I do believe that in this day and age a lot of what the Orioles are going to do is risk aversion when it comes to pitching...both drafting it at the high rounds and spending for it in free agency.  
    • Can_of_corn
      What are you listening to right now?

      By Can_of_corn · Posted

    • Aristotelian
      Grow the Bats? Grow the Arms? Both? Neither?

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      Draft the best player available and go from there. If you end up with a surplus of position players, trade then for pitching, and vice versa.
    • Filmstudy
      So, who WOULD you trade?

      By Filmstudy · Posted

      If you're talking about a bold trade of a ML player, how about Santander as part of a buyers and sellers route? He's just had a huge June (although somehow he did not make the MLB team of the month) and his OPS is now way above the league average.  Maybe he could go to a team like Seattle that can use bats and has arms.  I'd like a trade for a 2024 pennant piece, but I'd also be OK if the return was similar to the Lopez trade with another reliever they can use immediately. The trade makes room in the OF where the team needs it (RF) and helps for 2025 without hurting too much for 2024. As the buy side, they could then trade Stowers or Norby for a top starter or lesser prospects for a mid-range guy. 
    • O's84
      The 2024 Trade Deadline

      By O's84 · Posted

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    • Frobby
      Chayce McDermott 2024

      By Frobby · Posted

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    • Aristotelian
      So, who WOULD you trade?

      By Aristotelian · Posted

      Players I would trade, ie I would value the potential return more than the player:  Cowser, Norby, Stowers, Beavers, Fabian, Liranzo, Cook, Willems Players I would trade for bags of balls (but unlikely to bring anything back): Urias, Hays, Akin Players I would not trade, ie I value them more than any package we would likely receive: Gunnar, Adley, Burnes, Grayson, Bradish, Felix, Holliday, Mayo, Basallo, Povich, McDermott, Etzel Everyone else I would consider trading but would have to be for the right return which means they are unlikely trade candidates. In my ideal world, we would get a reliever for Beavers and Cook, and a starter for Norby and Stowers.

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