TT: It's still a great time to be an Orioles fan

[Tony-OH]

It's easy to get down on the Orioles after their playoff sweep by the Rangers. It's easy to try and point to what Mike Elias did not do to upgrade the bullpen or his lack of acquiring a top playoff experienced starting pitcher at the trade dead line.

It's easy to try and nit pick moves Brandon Hyde did or did not make during this series. It's east to wonder why a pitcher like Bryan Baker was on the playoff or why they choose to go with Kremer instead of the veteran Gibson after two straight losses. 

Now each of those things have merit to discuss, and I know we've already been discussing each of these things in various threads. But at the end of the day, after 101-win season and a farm system full of prospects, including potential impact prospects in Jackson Holliday, Coby Mayo and Samuel Basallo, it's still a great time to be an Orioles fan and no sweep in the playoffs is going to change that.

There are absolutely valid things to discuss, and I'm sure they will be discussed until those horses are beaten to death, at least until the offseason gets really started.

While it's still a little fresh, what I'm not going to lose focus on that this organization top to bottom is in the best shape it's been in a long time. The last time the Orioles were one of the best teams in the regular season and also had several impact minor league prospects was probably back in the late 60s or early 70s.

Since the Free agency era started in the 1976-77 offseason, the Orioles organization top to bottom has never been stronger. Even during their good stretches (1977-1983, 1996-97, 2012-2016) the Orioles minor league system was not prepared to sustain the winning and/or the main talent consisted of a lot of older players towards the end of their prime years.

The Orioles youth and inexperienced may have contributed to their poor showing in the playoffs, or it could have just been they hit a white hot Rangers team that looks like they could beat anyone. But the key here is the Orioles best players are all under the age of 29 and their stars are under 27. 

Henderson - 22
Rodriguez - 23
Hall - 24
Rutschman - 25
Bradish -26

And let's not forget they still have waves of young players that are ready to contribute next year at the major league level in the likes of Heston Kjerstad, Joey Ortiz, Connor Norby, Coby Mayo, Colton Cowser, Kyle Stowers and Chayce McDermott. That's not even mentioning the widely awarded Minor League player of the year Jackson Holliday, who also may be ready at some point.

Now how all these pieces are used is for another discussion. But the key is for all of us to not become jaded over a bad series or to leave this season with a bad feeling.

Getting swept out of the playoffs is never fun, but the Orioles are going to be just fine. They may or may not win 100-games next year, but what they will have are a bunch of players who have been there before, unlike this year where most players on the team were in their first playoff games.

It's a great time to be an Orioles fan. 

 

 

 

[Uli2001]

The playoff loss will be felt until the playoffs are over. After that, fans will get over it and start looking forward to next season.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

The playoff loss will be felt until the playoffs are over. After that, fans will get over it and start looking forward to next season.

I will never be completely over it, but 95% of it is behind me already.   

Great OP by @Tony-OHsummarizing why the team is in a great position for the foreseeable future.  Now it’s up to Elias to figure out how best to move the team to the next level.   
 

[Aristotelian]

Good take and very much where I am at as well. We always kinda suspected that we were playing a bit over our heads. The grind of 162 games and dependence on unproven young players eventually caught up with us. But this is a very good team with an excellent core and reinforcements on the way.

I do hope that we will make some more aggressive moves this offseason and next trade deadline. Not necessarily "all in" but at least some aggressive moves to improve the team, whether costing dollars or prospects, and/or extending Gunnar. Elias has always said the ultimate objective is to win a World Series, not just to compete. Well, that opportunity is here.

I wish only that my confidence in the management would extend to the ownership. Will 100 wins and a taste of the playoffs convince the ownership to remove some of the constraints Elias appears to be operating under? We may have a bright future, but it's in spite of the ownership, not because of it. Get the ownership on board and we could really have liftoff. 

[DirtyBird]

Unfortunately, we will take a major step back. Some veterans will be gone, the clubhouse chemistry will not be the same and there will be dependence on too many young prospects who won't live up to the hype. We will see the same trajectory of the '20 - '23 Chicago White Sox.

[Sports Guy]

Now, if we could just get a new owner

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Unfortunately, we will take a major step back. Some veterans will be gone, the clubhouse chemistry will not be the same and there will be dependence on too many young prospects who won't live up to the hype. We will see the same trajectory of the '20 - '23 Chicago White Sox.

Are you this much of a delight in real life?

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Good take and very much where I am at as well. We always kinda suspected that we were playing a bit over our heads. The grind of 162 games and dependence on unproven young players eventually caught up with us. But this is a very good team with an excellent core and reinforcements on the way.

I do hope that we will make some more aggressive moves this offseason and next trade deadline. Not necessarily "all in" but at least some aggressive moves to improve the team, whether costing dollars or prospects, and/or extending Gunnar. Elias has always said the ultimate objective is to win a World Series, not just to compete. Well, that opportunity is here.

I wish only that my confidence in the management would extend to the ownership. Will 100 wins and a taste of the playoffs convince the ownership to remove some of the constraints Elias appears to be operating under? We may have a bright future, but it's in spite of the ownership, not because of it. Get the ownership on board and we could really have liftoff. 

Nothing to argue with here from me. This will be an interesting offseason to see how Elias and maybe more importantly, ownership react to being legitimately set up compete next season.

 

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Now, if we could just get a new owner

It would certainly be the best news we could all get, but at the same time, not realistic unfortunately. It's always a gray cloud over the fandom. 

But this is about being positive. We have a great GM, and very good manager/coaching staff and an organization that is very healthy and not up against an end date.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

14 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Good take and very much where I am at as well. We always kinda suspected that we were playing a bit over our heads. The grind of 162 games and dependence on unproven young players eventually caught up with us. But this is a very good team with an excellent core and reinforcements on the way.

I do hope that we will make some more aggressive moves this offseason and next trade deadline. Not necessarily "all in" but at least some aggressive moves to improve the team, whether costing dollars or prospects, and/or extending Gunnar. Elias has always said the ultimate objective is to win a World Series, not just to compete. Well, that opportunity is here.

I wish only that my confidence in the management would extend to the ownership. Will 100 wins and a taste of the playoffs convince the ownership to remove some of the constraints Elias appears to be operating under? We may have a bright future, but it's in spite of the ownership, not because of it. Get the ownership on board and we could really have liftoff. 

I'm looking forward to the future, but like you my excitement is tempered by JA's potential to wreck a good thing. We don't even need the Orioles to spend huge money in comparison to what larger market teams do in free agency.

Will Elias be afforded the latitude to get a TOR caliber starting pitcher and supplement the bullpen with more depth. Elias has done a nice job with waiver wire pickups and trading for undervalued pitchers, but settling for Webb and Fuji to bolster the bullpen wasn't enough to really position the team for a World Series run.

I want to see Elias get a starter that isn't just next season's Kyle Gibson and not settle for waiver wire or trade throw-in's to fill out the bullpen.

[Spy Fox]

It could go any number of ways from here, but pretty much all of them involve mostly good baseball being played in the next several years. I'm sure there will be tons of references this winter, like we've already seen in this thread, to teams like the 2020s White Sox and Blue Jays that looked primed for years of greatness and have yet to see an ALCS. And definitely, that could happen, though I think the O's are better set up than those teams were. 

Elias' previous project, the Astros, reached the playoffs in 2015, a bit earlier than expected after their very deep tank/rebuild. They lost the ALDS to KC after beating the Yankees in the WC game. They lost the series despite being up 6-2 at home, in the 8th inning, in what could have been a series-winning Game 4. The most pivotal play in that loss was an error by 20 year old, soon to by Rookie of the Year shortstop, Carlos Correa.

The year after that, they did regress slightly, finishing 3rd in the West and missing the playoffs. 

The year after that, they won the World Series. They've been to at least the ALCS in every year since. 

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It would certainly be the best news we could all get, but at the same time, not realistic unfortunately. It's always a gray cloud over the fandom. 

But this is about being positive. We have a great GM, and very good manager/coaching staff and an organization that is very healthy and not up against an end date.

No doubt..just saying that the new owner would complete everything for the fan base.

Love where this team is headed, no doubt.

[baltfan]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

It would certainly be the best news we could all get, but at the same time, not realistic unfortunately. It's always a gray cloud over the fandom. 

But this is about being positive. We have a great GM, and very good manager/coaching staff and an organization that is very healthy and not up against an end date.

And don't forget though the owner doesn't spend a bunch of money he seems to let the GM do what he thinks is correct within the constraints of the budget.  Tons of owners don't do this.  Personally, I would rather have this type of owner with the Elias regime than one willing to spend more money but who interferes with Elias.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, baltfan said:

And don't forget though the owner doesn't spend a bunch of money he seems to let the GM do what he thinks is correct within the constraints of the budget.  Tons of owners don't do this.  Personally, I would rather have this type of owner with the Elias regime than one willing to spend more money but who interferes with Elias.

Tons?

I can think of two that we have evidence of working like this, Moreno and Reinsdorf.  Maybe Cohen and Seidler.

I think most owners prefer to stay out of it.
 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[foxfield]

Excellent voice of reason Tony. There really hasn’t been a period of time since the last WS win where the future of the Orioles and the state of the franchise were better. 
 

Today is a sad day because we wake up without another game on the schedule. And it hurts because this team looked ready to go further. But today is also a reminder that the playoffs are a crapshoot and that being in it, having a ticket to the playoffs, gives you a chance. 
 

Our young team got a taste and also a reality check about the playoffs. Hopefully it serves the core well. Makes them hungry for more and brings them back in the spring with a chip on the shoulder. 
 

A final point…the rebuild is clearly over and Elias gets an A+. Now we will be grading him on keeping the Orioles relevant and improving our odds in future post seasons. None of us knows how or if he can do this, but if he does nearly as well as he did getting here there are plenty of good times ahead. 
 

For that, I am thankful. And also thankful for what you provide Tony. It has been without a doubt a hell of a good year. And it’s been great to be here for all of it!

Carry on!