Cease vs everyone else

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Yes, both sides have to have the willingness to deal in addition to the assets. It's true in the sense we have the most expendable assets in guys like Norby and Ortiz. Question is whether CWS wants those guys. But if the Sox price is Kjerstad should we be doing that deal? Very tempting but I am inclined to pass. 

It depends on the alternatives.  If the Os can have Cease by surrendering one of the 2 OFers and they don’t do it, it should be because they have another deal for an upper echelon starter.

It will be a complete failure of an offseason if the Os don’t add a real starter to this rotation. 
 

[Roll Tide]

11 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

One of my biggest concerns with Cease is how deep he can pitch into games. Last year it looks like only completed at least 6 innings in 14 out of 33 starts. Even in his Cy Young runner up season, he only got through the 6th inning in 16 out of 32 starts. Just looking at a quick comparison last season, Bradish completed at least 6 innings in 20 out of 30 starts, including the 2 inning pre-playoff tune-up in September. Valdez was pretty awesome here last year (23/31); Luzardo wasn't amazing but was better than Cease (17/32), 

@Chicago White Sox any thoughts here? Is this a function of being a strikeout reliant pitcher and running up high pitch counts? Maybe there's been so little faith in the defense he works outside the plate too much to avoid contact? I believe in missing bats and all but we have a manager with a pretty quick trigger finger and we saw how worn down the bullpen got last August; I just think its a potential limitation I haven't seen much discussion on. 

I think that highlights his walk issues

[Roll Tide]

37 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The one thing that I do feel is wrong about this trade talk is that the Os are in the best position because our system is so strong.

That isn’t necessarily true when the top 3 players are likely (and rightfully so) off the board. And if Cowser and Kjerstad are off the board, then it’s really not true.

 

I agree it all depends who we make available.

[RZNJ]

This guy, @Chicago White Sox likes to stir the pot.

That Rosenthal article should make everyone here feel much better and Orioles fans feel very nervous.

LOL

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This guy, @Chicago White Sox likes to stir the pot.

That Rosenthal article should make everyone here feel much better and Orioles fans feel very nervous.

LOL

Not nervous if you think Cease is a bit overrated and would prefer other options. 

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not nervous if you think Cease is a bit overrated and would prefer other options. 

I think the article is gives me more positive vibes if it’s correct that pitching doesn’t have to be included. There is zero about that article that makes me nervous.  It’s not like we thought the Os were the only team going after him.

It does suck that the Dodgers could still be involved.

Edited January 5 by Sports Guy

[SemperFi]

36 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I agree it all depends who we make available.

And who is made available by competing teams-the assumption seems to be everyone is available and that simply is not true.

[Aristotelian]

46 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It depends on the alternatives.  If the Os can have Cease by surrendering one of the 2 OFers and they don’t do it, it should be because they have another deal for an upper echelon starter.

It will be a complete failure of an offseason if the Os don’t add a real starter to this rotation. 
 

Let's say there is nothing else on the table. So that's a yes on Kjerstad for Cease?

That's a tough one for me. I was more inclined to do Cowser. But it sounds like White Sox may want Mayo, in which case I think we all are definitely out. 

I agree in principle we should be upgrading the rotation but not at any cost. The offseason would be a worse failure if we get into a bad long term contract or get ripped off in a bad trade.

[Ripken]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This guy, @Chicago White Sox likes to stir the pot.

That Rosenthal article should make everyone here feel much better and Orioles fans feel very nervous.

LOL

Yeah, I don't even want Cease.  Outside of 2022, he's not been special.  Lots of other ways to improve the rotation.

[CP0861]

48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It depends on the alternatives.  If the Os can have Cease by surrendering one of the 2 OFers and they don’t do it, it should be because they have another deal for an upper echelon starter.

It will be a complete failure of an offseason if the Os don’t add a real starter to this rotation. 
 

So you'd be willing to give anything for a starter? Okay with an overpay for a rental?

Without knowing ALL details and unless you know all the potential deals that were offered, negotiated and rejected, you can't say that. 

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Let's say there is nothing else on the table. So that's a yes on Kjerstad for Cease?

That's a tough one for me. I was more inclined to do Cowser. But it sounds like White Sox may want Mayo, in which case I think we all are definitely out. 

I agree in principle we should be upgrading the rotation but not at any cost. The offseason would be a worse failure if we get into a bad long term contract or get ripped off in a bad trade.

Priority #1 in 2024 is winning. The Os can make that a priority while still keeping their best prospects. 
 

So yea, if that’s the only move they can make, it’s a failure to not make it…and I say that as someone who doesn’t want to deal Kjerstad or Cowser. It’s not like I desire to have them gone but I also have faith that we will have other alternatives pop up…but we won’t have that for Cease, not right now.

[RZNJ]

I am rooting for a Skubal, Luzardo, or Bieber trade.  Luzardo and Skubal are 27 yo LHP with 3 years of service time.  Easier to justify a high price.  Bieber, who there seems to be little buzz on, should be the cheapest to acquire, comes with the most injury risk, but still capable, if healthy, of putting up a big season.   I so want these obnoxious WS fans to get a crappy deal now or no deal at all.  

[RZNJ]

40 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not nervous if you think Cease is a bit overrated and would prefer other options. 

His preceding post was about getting a “savage”.  That’s their lingo for a top offensive player like Kjerstad or Mayo but in general whenever they mention a savage it’s a LH hitter which seems to be their preference.  I think the nervous comment is about who the Orioles will give up to get Cease.

[RZNJ]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Priority #1 in 2024 is winning. The Os can make that a priority while still keeping their best prospects. 
 

So yea, if that’s the only move they can make, it’s a failure to not make it…and I say that as someone who doesn’t want to deal Kjerstad or Cowser. It’s not like I desire to have them gone but I also have faith that we will have other alternatives pop up…but we won’t have that for Cease, not right now.

 Priority #1 in 2024 is winning, without sacrificing too much of the long term.  He’s always going to do a balancing act.  It’s never going to be “all in”.   He’s not going to overpay for Cease.  
 

The thing I’m not sure of is how much he values Cowser and/or Kjerstad.  Are they really off the table or is that a negotiating tactic where he takes something away and pretends to give in later on to consummate the deal.

[Sports Guy]

42 minutes ago, CP0861 said:

So you'd be willing to give anything for a starter? Okay with an overpay for a rental?

Without knowing ALL details and unless you know all the potential deals that were offered, negotiated and rejected, you can't say that. 

 

I absolutely can say it. 
 

This is the stated goal of the team. There are plenty of options out there and there is zero chance the Os have to give up one of the three “untouchables” to improve the pitching staff.

The rotation for the Os is not good enough. It has to be better and god forbid we have an injury to GRod or Bradish and if it happens, the team is f’ed.

Kremer isn’t “that guy”. We don’t know what Means is going to give us. We don’t know what we will get from any of the current 5th starter options. They have to add a starter and it needs to be a difference maker. You don’t currently have 3 starters you feel good about in a playoffs series. The goal is to add AT LEAST one more guy that you feel good about for that.

They easily have the resources to do it. No excuses not to.

Edited January 5 by Sports Guy