Cease vs everyone else

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Since when have you cared about that? You certainly didn’t with Bauer. 
 

“This clubhouse isn’t going to suddenly have chemistry issues because of one player”

I’m paraphrasing but that was the gist of your response to concerns about Bauer being bad in the clubhouse. 

I didn’t say I cared about it…just making the comment.

I just wouldn’t sign him in general.

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Since when have you cared about that? You certainly didn’t with Bauer. 
 

“This clubhouse isn’t going to suddenly have chemistry issues because of one player”

I’m paraphrasing but that was the gist of your response to concerns about Bauer being bad in the clubhouse. 

I don't think SG cares about that too much.  He's just reporting what the locals opinion of Clevinger is.  

But c'mon, would ANYONE want to be around a guy that looks like this?

Looks like he missed his call to be an extra in a low budget western movie cause he was out all night doing blow.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think SG cares about that too much.  He's just reporting what the locals opinion of Clevinger is.  

But c'mon, would ANYONE want to be around a guy that looks like this?

Looks like he missed his call to be an extra in a low budget western movie cause he was out all night doing blow.  

You spelled whippets wrong.

[24fps]

3 hours ago, dystopia said:

The first half of his post was 100% correct. 

The first half of the Titanic's maiden voyage was too.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, 24fps said:

The first half of the Titanic's maiden voyage was too.

It's a good day when a Titanic reference is made.  

[24fps]

1 hour ago, bpilktree said:

I am at that point make your offer and tell them you got 48 hours to take it or we are gonna go a different way and sign a free agent.  At some point the dance has to be over and you move on to another date.  

The threat has to be credible.  JA comfortable signing a free agent pitcher?  Could happen I guess...

[Billy F-Face3]

7 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

None of the other stuff is relevant so I only quoted what was actually relevant. What is interesting about that?

If the Orioles acquired Cease and he somehow underperformed Gibson's 2023, then I would be forced to consider whether there is something very wrong with our coaching staff and their methods.

I would be inclined to think there is something wrong with your evaluation of Cease. You probably look at the one year wonder that was his only great season out of 5 season and ignore the other 4 seasons of his career, or just bought the media hype. Many pitchers on the Orioles staff are living proof there is nothing wrong with the their coaching staff. Bautistata, Bradish, Rodriguez, Wells, Perez, Coulombe, Tate, Cano, and numerous other waiver wire claims that have been successful for the Orioles are evidence of the results.

 

 

7 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

 

4 hours ago, banks703 said:

IP the last three years:

Cease: 526.2

Gibson: 541.2

That's an average of 5 more innings pitched per season for Kyle.

WAR the last three years:

Cease: 12.6

Gibson: 7.5

K's the last three years:

Cease: 667

Gibson: 456

 

I really can't reconcile this thought of yours about the two of Gibson and Cease. I don't think that Kyle Gibson is in the same neighborhood as Cease in terms of value and potential. 

 

 

Ok if you don't want to say that Gibson out performed Cease, you also can't say that Cease is that significantly better than Gibson to warrent a top prospect. For the 2023 season...

WHIP: Cease 1.42, Gibson 1.32

IP: Cease 172, Gibson 192

ERA: Cease 4.58, Gibson 4.7

Induced Double Plays:  Cease forced 6 DP, Gibson forced 24 Double Plays

Wins (I don't put much stock in them for a pitcher because it's a team sport, but the stat does weigh for something at least. and winning is the objective of the game)... Cease 7 wins, Gibson 15 wins.

Both had about the same HR/9.

Both had the exact same S%.

I could go on comparing statistical results, but it's fruitless exercise. The point being.... If anyone willing to give up Coby Mayo for an over rated player that people are psyching themselves out over (by investing so much effort + energy in an argument in his favor), then it's a good thing those people aren't the GM.

The anomaly of one great season in 2022 does not negate the results of his other 4 seasons, and career norm.

 

Also everything that Roll Tide said...

4 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Ks aren’t everything… WAR is fine and all. But, at some point the actual stats need to count. Gibson BB/9  2.6/9 vs Cease 4.0/9. Gibson 15 wins vs Cease 7 . 

 

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

So the actual results don’t matter? Ok He lost 8 games in his great season. Probably by walking too many and leaving with men on the bases.

 

 

[Billy F-Face3]

My final thought would be this: I might like Cease as the #3 or #4 pitcher in the 2024 season, but I'm not paying what the White Sox are asking for him. I'm not giving him Ace value. He's not an Ace on a championship team. I think Cease might be outside of the top 3 of Bradish, Rodriguez, and Means. So that would make him #4 in the rotation.

What we have in this thread is an over valuation of Cease, and a devaluation of Gibson's efforts for the team in 2023.

[sportsfan8703]

The sad reality is that Elias didn’t have room in the budget to sign both Gibson and Kimbrel. 

Clevinger and Bauer aren’t even upgrades over Wells and Irvin. Just on a performance level without their drama. 

Giving up the #34 overall pick was a dealbreaker for Stroman. We need that pick. 

I really hope this means Snell isn’t coming to the AL East.  It’s nice to see Cashman have to be on a budget. 

[Since1984]

I’m pretty sure this has been mentioned, but Cease’s bref’s top similarity score is Jack Flaherty and Flaherty’s is Cease.

They are the same age, but Jack started  mlb two years earlier and has durability issues.

[CaptainRedbeard]

7 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The sad reality is that Elias didn’t have room in the budget to sign both Gibson and Kimbrel. 

Clevinger and Bauer aren’t even upgrades over Wells and Irvin. Just on a performance level without their drama. 

Giving up the #34 overall pick was a dealbreaker for Stroman. We need that pick. 

I really hope this means Snell isn’t coming to the AL East.  It’s nice to see Cashman have to be on a budget. 

Stroman didn’t have a QO attached. We could have signed him without the pick. Either the Orioles weren’t willing to match/beat the Yankees’ deal or he took less to play there. It seems he prefers New York but that is still a bit surprisingly low deal.

I’m not a Stroman fan but it became apparent he was going to be the best FA SP this offseason signed to a 3 yr or less deal, except for Sonny Gray, who did have the QO. The fact that the Yankees got him for this light of a deal means he either really didn’t want to play here or the Orioles didn’t really value him/go after him, and it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that budget constraints / aversion to multi-year contracts are a factor in that. 

It’s easy to see a lot of the prior free agent contracts go by and say yeah, that wasn’t ever realistic for the Orioles, but Imanaga and Stroman were the first couple for me where it really makes you feel like Angelos has to have Elias’ hands completely tied. 

[sportsfan8703]

Just in case anyone wanted to watch Tyler Wells mow down the CWS.

[LTO's]

Yankees all but out on Cease according to Heyman. They never will put Spencer Jones on the table which was obvious to everyone except White Sox fans I guess. Getz better pray Cease has a great first half or else this was an awful way to start your tenure as GM. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Yankees all but out on Cease according to Heyman.  

That’s a little misleading

 

[Malike]

I'm not a big Cease fan, but holding onto him until the trade deadline is probably not a great idea. There are a few reasons, one being he may underperform, another is he gets injured, but one that probably isn't being taken into account is the prospects they want for him might have proven by July that they are simply too good to let go and end up not being on the table at all for him any longer.