Pre winter meeting reliever notes

[interloper]

Hicks gets wildly underrated on this board considering his youth and pure stuff.

[Jim'sKid26]

31 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Here's a stat for you -- 3.84 lifetime ERA which is meh at best for a reliever. Not a small sample size either unlike his stint in Toronto.

ERA? Really? Lifetime ERA for a back of the BP reliever? Who just turned 27? OK. He doesn't have an elite lifetime ERA. I think I'm ok with that. 

Just for comparison, Pete Fairbanks, Tampa's closer, has a lifetime ERA of 3.21. He any good?

Edited December 1, 2023 by Jim'sKid26

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

From Fangraphs: "Possibly the best right-handed reliever on the market, Hicks’ sales pitch is simple: He might have the fastest fastball ever to reach free agency. But his case is further bolstered by his 2023 season, which might have been his most complete season yet statistically speaking. He made 65 regular season appearances between the Cardinals and Blue Jays with a 3.29 ERA, 3.22 FIP, and 3.36 xFIP, striking out a career-high 28.4% of batters faced. He allowed just nine barrels on 168 batted balls (5.4%) and an average exit velocity of just 86.7 mph – good for the 89th percentile league-wide. On those balls in play, 58.9% were on the ground, a 96th-percentile clip and yet somehow below his career average. As it turns out, strikeouts and soft groundballs are a potent combination."

It goes on to address that he walks too many guy, as I have already addressed, before concluding:"Hicks has had his own ups and downs, but he’s an undeniable weapon for the back end of any bullpen." Now if you want to argue that he is asking more than you are willing to pay, fine. I get it. But don't tell me he doesn't have elite stuff. He does what you want a back end guy to do. He gets Ks and GB. 

Haha.  Too funny.  When did I ever say he didn’t have elite stuff?  I asked how you could call him a “high end” reliever.   Great. Fangraphs calls him a weapon at the back of any bullpen.  Big deal.  
 

His results aren’t elite. Even last year.  His career whip is something like 1.3 which is where it was last year.  He gave up almost a hit per inning and he’s walked about 4.5-5 per 9 innings which is exactly what he did last year unless you want to hug the 8 walks in 24 IP with Toronto.

 

[HakunaSakata]

13 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Clase is about as valuable as a closer could be on the trade market when you consider his age and contract. Definitely an interesting option though maybe a better fit for a team who doesn't have Bautista for, hopefully, most of that same span. 

...unless we include Bautista in the trade [the plot thickens...]

[Since1984]

I find it interesting that the O’s are getting press for showing interest in RP these last few hours/days. Normally we find news when something actually happens (after the fact).

This could be a good sign, if Agents are putting the news out there to draw more contract interest in the players they serve, since we know how tight-lipped ME and company can be. 

The flip side is that the O’s get priced out on good acquisitions! 
 

this should be an interesting offseason, more so than the last 5+ years.

[dystopia]

Stuff only gets you so far. Just ask Daniel Cabrera.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, dystopia said:

Stuff only gets you so far. Just ask Daniel Cabrera.

Six year career, 8M in career earnings. 

That's pretty far in my book.

His career ended when his stuff diminished.

[dystopia]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Six year career, 8M in career earnings. 

That's pretty far in my book.

His career ended when his stuff diminished.

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. Cabrera has very little major league success. 

[G54377]

Robertson would probably be (relatively) cheap and probably wouldn't really care whether he's the closer or SU. Seems like an easy 1 year deal.

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, dystopia said:

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. Cabrera has very little major league success. 

He was also a terrible athlete with one pitch who was rumored to be extremely uncoachable.

That he got as far as he did off the back of a fastball is a testament to how powerful "stuff" can be.

Lots of really nice guys who try their best never get close to the level he did.

His stuff allowed him to fail at the highest level...for six years.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[dystopia]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He was also a terrible athlete with one pitch who was rumored to be extremely uncoachable.

That he got as far as he did off the back of a fastball is a testament to how powerful "stuff" can be.

Lots of really nice guys who try their best never get close to the level he did.

His stuff allowed him to fail at the highest level...for six years.

Whatever you have to tell yourself. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Whatever you have to tell yourself. 

Are you denying that the ONLY asset he had was a "stuff" fastball and he managed to turn it into a six year MLB career?

It's a testament to baseball's fascination with stuff.

You used a poor example, sorry for pointing it out and getting you all upset.

[dystopia]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are you denying that the ONLY asset he had was a "stuff" fastball and he managed to turn it into a six year MLB career?

It's a testament to baseball's fascination with stuff.

You used a poor example, sorry for pointing it out and getting you all upset.

I mean this is a discussion about the value of major league pitchers. Just because a pitcher, whether it’s Jordan Hicks or Daniel Cabrera or whoever, has good stuff does not make them a good major leaguer. Even Ray Charles can see that but you still felt the need to argue and make a fool of yourself just because I live rent free in your head and you just can’t help yourself. 

[Can_of_corn]

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Weren't you the guy earlier in this thread admonishing other posters about small sample size?

5.5 years is a SSS?