Established arms vs non established arms

[Jim'sKid26]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Expecting ANY one starter to be your savior in October/November is foolish.   

Best Playoff Pitching in Baseball History (mlb.com)

Underestimating the impact of great pitching in the playoffs might be even more foolish. 

[Aristotelian]

Who do you have in mind as a young/not established arm? I don't think we are going to be a fit for teams looking to trade prospects. We are a much better fit for teams looking to trade veterans for our prospects. If someone is interested in Santander, I agree, we are not going to get an elite pitching prospect for him. 

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Best Playoff Pitching in Baseball History (mlb.com)

Underestimating the impact of great pitching in the playoffs might be even more foolish. 

Did I do that?

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Who do you have in mind as a young/not established arm? I don't think we are going to be a fit for teams looking to trade prospects. We are a much better fit for teams looking to trade veterans for our prospects. If someone is interested in Santander, I agree, we are not going to get an elite pitching prospect for him. 

Guys like Miller, Woo, Cabrera, Rogers and Garrett…maybe one of the Giants young prospect starters that are ML ready. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Guys like Miller, Woo, Cabrera, Rogers and Garrett…maybe one of the Giants young prospect starters that are ML ready. 

I'd be interested in Cabrera and possibly Rogers. Agreed, guys like Miller, Woo, and Garrett might not be upgrades over Kremer. 

I don't think we're a good fit for Seattle.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I'd be interested in Cabrera and possibly Rogers. Agreed, guys like Miller, Woo, and Garrett might not be upgrades over Kremer. 

I don't think we're a good fit for Seattle.

We are a perfect fit for Seattle. We have everything they are looking for.

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We are a perfect fit for Seattle. We have everything they are looking for.

Most trades happen between contenders and rebuilders. We are both contenders. I would be surprised if we trade with them. 

[Can_of_corn]

54 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We are a perfect fit for Seattle. We have everything they are looking for.

Was.

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was.

That would be poor grammar. 

[Moose Milligan]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Obviously there has been a lot of talk on this site about adding a starter.

A common answer I have seen a lot lately is the idea that people would prefer one of the Marlins or Mariners young arms vs a Cease trade.

We don’t need to necessarily rehash all the reasons why but instead I want to focus on just the production aspect of things.

 I have  certainly made it no secret that I want one of these arms as well but that would instead of Kremer. My thought process being that the Os need more young, cost controlled arms with big upside and we have the resources to do it.

However, that also goes with the idea that we add a starter that is no worse than a true #3 guy. 
 

My worry is that if we add one of the young arms that they won’t be a difference making arm. Now, we can’t say for sure that Luzardo or Burnes or Cease or Bieber would be either but I think it’s obvious that you feel better about guys with an established track record vs a young high upside arm but one that has no track record or an iffy track record.
 

I feel in previous years, the younger arm over the established arm is/was a no brainer. But now we have to look at what is best for the team that is trying to win and especially what’s best for the team in the playoffs and while it’s possible the young unestablished arm could be that guy come October, it’s obviously very risky to expect and assume that.

 

I thought you were the "add elite talent at all costs" guy.

 

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

I'd be interested in Cabrera and possibly Rogers. Agreed, guys like Miller, Woo, and Garrett might not be upgrades over Kremer. 

I don't think we're a good fit for Seattle.

It's a moot point now that Seattle traded Robbie Ray, but good like finding a single GM who wouldn't take any of those young arms over Kremer. 

[Sports Guy]

29 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

It's a moot point now that Seattle traded Robbie Ray, but good like finding a single GM who wouldn't take any of those young arms over Kremer. 

Well they did get a starter back, so maybe those guys could still be available but I tend to doubt it.

[ChicagoTerp]

Established arms were all unestablished until they weren't. I'm good with either. A team unwilling to spend any money like ours will have to take several risks along the way.

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Another thing to remember is that Bradish, Rodriguez and Kremer all have more playoff experience than Cease

Technically, Cease has pitched in more playoff games (2) than any of our three, and has pitched more innings (2.2) than either Rodriguez or Kremer (1.2 each).  But he’s not exactly your grizzled playoff veteran.  

[Billy F-Face3]

I would rather go in with the young talented arms we have than to overpay for an over rated bust like Cease. I would, however, feel more comfortable if we knew we had another reliably consistent established bullpen arm to add into the pen.