What About Julio Urias?

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

I prefer to wait for people to be convicted before I label them.

The court of law and the court of life are two entirely different things. I would hope that you hold the people you surround yourself with in your life to higher standards than whether or not they've been convicted of a crime. 

[wildbillhiccup]

7 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

It was just one incident and he was never arrested, correct?

Even if you were correct (which you aren't) is getting away with domestic abuse really any better than getting arrested for domestic abuse? 

[wildbillhiccup]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Because winning is valued more than being a Boy Scout. I don’t have to like the players on the team. I just want them to perform.

That said, for a talent like this to still be sitting there, I think it says something.

 

Not liking a player on a team and being sickened by them are two entirely different things. Urias is a two time domestic abuse offender. I'm sorry, but winning at the expense of supporting a complete piece of garbage like that is absolutely not worth it. I was willing to give him somewhat of the benefit of the doubt after the first incident, but not after the second one.  

[Malike]

41 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

The court of law and the court of life are two entirely different things. I would hope that you hold the people you surround yourself with in your life to higher standards than whether or not they've been convicted of a crime. 

In what I do for a living I'm very glad to see bad people get what they deserve. I've, unfortunately, seen many people get what they didn't deserve. You don't have to worry about whom I surround myself with, we're extremely unpopular to most people, despite risking our lives every day to try and protect those in our cities.

What we do know about this case currently is there are no formal charges filed, so there is no victim. They have a cellphone video that allegedly shows an altercation that was submitted by a witness. The DA has dropped the felony charges.

I know most people read something and go, wow that person is a monster! They don't know the facts, they just read it and react. I don't do that. Facts are what interest me, it's hard to get a conviction without them and personal feelings aren't enough.

[Malike]

39 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Not liking a player on a team and being sickened by them are two entirely different things. Urias is a two time domestic abuse offender. I'm sorry, but winning at the expense of supporting a complete piece of garbage like that is absolutely not worth it. I was willing to give him somewhat of the benefit of the doubt after the first incident, but not after the second one.  

I don't think you realize there is a difference between being arrested for something and being convicted of something. 

I know 3 college kids who were arrested for gang-raping a girl. If one of them didn't record the incident, where the girl was clearly consenting, their entire lives would have changed at 19 and 20 years old. Sounds like you'd have thrown away the key.

[nsw]

18 minutes ago, Malike said:

I don't think you realize there is a difference between being arrested for something and being convicted of something. 

I know 3 college kids who were arrested for gang-raping a girl. If one of them didn't record the incident, where the girl was clearly consenting, their entire lives would have changed at 19 and 20 years old. Sounds like you'd have thrown away the key.

I don't think not wanting Urias on the O's is the same as sending someone to prison without a trial... The preponderance of the evidence says let's leave Urias for someone else, just in case. 

Edited February 2 by nsw

[Bahama O's Fan]

Well, no need now

[Malike]

18 minutes ago, nsw said:

I don't think not wanting Urias on the O's is the same as sending someone to prison without a trial... The preponderance of the evidence says let's leave Urias for someone else, just in case. 

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that people using terms that would be used after a conviction to label him is not a good thing to do. They arrested him for suspicion of felony assault. If I were to say I don't want Urias on the team because he's a felon, well, that would be wrong and unfair to say.

[Frobby]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:03 PM, Malike said:

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that people using terms that would be used after a conviction to label him is not a good thing to do. They arrested him for suspicion of felony assault. If I were to say I don't want Urias on the team because he's a felon, well, that would be wrong and unfair to say.

I appreciate your perspective on this.  

[wildbillhiccup]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:03 PM, Malike said:

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that people using terms that would be used after a conviction to label him is not a good thing to do. They arrested him for suspicion of felony assault. If I were to say I don't want Urias on the team because he's a felon, well, that would be wrong and unfair to say.

My question is why are you trying to make that point on a MLB team message board? Whether or not someone was actually convicted or charged with a crime isn't the the standard a MLB team is going to hold a player to when they determine whether or not the should sign him. It's significantly less relevant than public perception in an industry that depends on generating sales from a public fan base to make money. Yet time and time again folks consistently try to steer the conversations into a legal argument whenever someone dare express even the slightest reservation about signing someone with baggage like Urias, Bauer or Clevinger. I honestly think that dialogue is as inappropriate as political discourse on this message board and I really wish it would stop. 

[Malike]

3 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

My question is why are you trying to make that point on a MLB team message board? Whether or not someone was actually convicted or charged with a crime isn't the the standard a MLB team is going to hold a player to when they determine whether or not the should sign him. It's significantly less relevant than public perception in an industry that depends on generating sales from a public fan base to make money. Yet time and time again folks consistently try to steer the conversations into a legal argument whenever someone dare express even the slightest reservation about signing someone with baggage like Urias, Bauer or Clevinger. I honestly think that dialogue is as inappropriate as political discourse on this message board and I really wish it would stop. 

You are really wondering why words matter? I'm not arguing to sign anyone of the people you listed, but I have a real problem with playing Judge and Jury and labeling people inappropriately. If you think the law or legal terms are inappropriate, then let us just ignore each other, but remember, words matter and you don't get to just say something that is your opinion as if it's true.

[Chavez Ravine]

Urias is the only one who put him in this situation. He flushed his career down the toilet. I don’t care.