Orioles close to acquiring Corbin Burnes (Update: Acquired for Joey Ortiz and DL Hall)

[Tony-OH]

6 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

I expect league average at a minimum. With all the young talent we have for dirt cheap that puts us in a position to win a WS every year for the next 4. Is that too much to ask? Are we running at a loss at league average? Normally I would use all the money that "hasn't" been spent in last 5 yrs as leverage for more, but we know that last owner just stole all that money and it is gone now. Johnny isn't as dumb as we all thought, he hoarded hundreds of millions of cash over last 5 yrs and then took off and ran with it. 

 

You know you can actually have an opinion and not act like a total and utter jerk?

I really don't even disagree with you besides your attacks on the board and fans as some kind of brainwashed idiots. Like you are the only one that sees what you see.

I actually agree with you that JA has been pocketing money and there is no reason for the team to have such a low payroll. The MLB TV money alone is huge influx of cash that others teams have been using to buy talent while Elias has most like had to stay on the cheap. 

I do think Rubenstein will change that, but the Nationals cut into the market and the Orioles are bordered by Philadelphia fans to the North, Pirates fans out in Western, MD, Nats fans and other team fans around DC now (for the most part), and only MLB thinks NC has Orioles fans nowadays. 

So can the Orioles be middle of the pack? Probably. 

Will they be under new ownership. We all hope so. 

Try and just be happy the family you love so much will be out of running the Orioles finally and stop now taking your wonderful personality and attack other fans that actually share that view.

[LookinUp]

3 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

I agree with you, so long as it doesn’t compromise your ability to pay other studs that are better value (i.e. extending young guys). But the Orioles’ payroll obligations are so wide open that they should be able to lock in 1-2 premium free agents at full market prices and still be able to. So they should be exploring it with Burnes.

The problem is Burnes is going to hit the market and we’re going to be up against the Dodgers and Yankees. No we he’s extending for less than his starting asking price, which won’t be a penny less than $325M. Boras was asking for 9/270 for Blake Snell.  As good and as durable as Burnes is, I’ll believe it when I see it that the Orioles are willing to shell that out, let alone to a 30 year old pitcher. 

Burnes is almost certainly going to be a rental but it was still a good deal.

I think a lot of things are possible. I know what he said last year, but it also appears there were genuine hurt feelings in Milwaukee.

I'm holding out hope that Burnes really likes it in Baltimore and is willing to take a ton of money to stay here before hitting the market. He still gets a huge deal, but is willing to take it from us before the Yankees jump in.

[CaptainRedbeard]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I certainly think Elias has been working the Burnes deal for a lot longer than a couple of days. While I don't know the answer, it seems to make sense that he was able to pull the trigger or decided to pull the trigger on the Burnes deal for two reasons. 

1) He was was given the go ahead to spend the $15 million when the deal was done.

2) He thinks there is a chance that he could extend him now with Rubenstein as owner vice with Scrooge McDuck running things like he was going to lose his inheritance if he spent more than the bare minimum.

 

 

It could also be coincidental because we are approaching that point of the offseason where the rubber hits the road and teams want to start shifting focus to the guys in the building for Spring Training. The Brewers could have been messaging “we’re holding Burnes” for trade leverage all long when they had every intent of trading him and eventually took the best deal on the table. Or Elias gave up on Cease and upped his offer on Burnes (maybe adding the comp pick?).

But the timing is so close to the news of the sale that I definitely buy that one or both of those 2 reasons you laid out were factors. 

[SemperFi]

35 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

There were reports that all (major) spending was frozen until deal went through. I think what we saw in the 48hrs afterwards lends credibility to that notion. 

 There is no cash transaction.  Players are paid during the season not offseason-his bi monthly salary is payable starting the second week of the regular season-mid April-that's when he hits payroll.

[Hank Scorpio]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

You know you can actually have an opinion and not act like a total and utter jerk?

I really don't even disagree with you besides your attacks on the board and fans as some kind of brainwashed idiots. Like you are the only one that sees what you see.

I actually agree with you that JA has been pocketing money and there is no reason for the team to have such a low payroll. The MLB TV money alone is huge influx of cash that others teams have been using to buy talent while Elias has most like had to stay on the cheap. 

I do think Rubenstein will change that, but the Nationals cut into the market and the Orioles are bordered by Philadelphia fans to the North, Pirates fans out in Western, MD, Nats fans and other team fans around DC now (for the most part), and only MLB thinks NC has Orioles fans nowadays. 

So can the Orioles be middle of the pack? Probably. 

Will they be under new ownership. We all hope so. 

Try and just be happy the family you love so much will be out of running the Orioles finally and stop now taking your wonderful personality and attack other fans that actually share that view.

In other words...

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

The deepness of the pockets of ownership have nothing to do with the size of the market.

I disagree totally about that. The "market size" speaks to the financial capabilities of the said owner of that team. It really has nothing to do with population size of the city. If that was the case why was Toronto run the way it was run before Rodgers sold the team given the size of that giant metropolis? Why was HOU run historically as a small market before this last decade given how great that population size is. Why isn't ARI (which is located in PHX) not run as a top 5 market/spender? Why is MIA run as a "small market" as compared to STL?

It's all about what the owner can afford and is willing to spend. Why else did the Padres go from bottom spenders to top spenders when the ownership changed hands? Why did DET go in the opposite direction? 

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

I'm as happy as it gets right now.  Funny you have to claim otherwise. 

The beautiful part about this ownership transition is how every single know it all about what this team and market can afford is going to be blown straight out of the water in the coming years, and all the delusional homers who bought into this small market nonsense are going to look foolish. That's why you hate people like me, because we are going to be proved correct while you are are going to be proven wrong. Sit back and watch. You see this is an actual good thing if you can put your ego aside and admit what some of us have known all along. You just wanted to believe so so much. 

Much of your post is very, very ironic.   Know it all.  Ego.   You’re a funny guy.  I just never realized it before.  LOL

[Rbiggs2525]

I did some minor research to try and get a gauge on Burnes future contract. Both Strasburg and Cole contracts go until age 37. I believe those are 2 pitchers in the ballpark of Burnes career wise. So 6-7 years around 35 million per is what we may be looking at. Will be very interested to see what Snell gets.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

 There is no cash transaction.  Players are paid during the season not offseason-his bi monthly salary is payable starting the second week of the regular season-mid April-that's when he hits payroll.

I think it was the financial commitment that is being referred to. It is clear that Angelos had no interest in taking on much financial commitment even if it meant increasing our World Series odds. As a matter of fact, out of all the times that I heard him speak to the media, I never even heard him express that as a primary goal (championship). The very first thing out of this owner's mouth (i.e. Twitter post) was about brining a World Series back to Baltimore. Also, we have to look at the net worth of the two groups of ownership (outgoing and incoming). One is clearly nothing like the other. It appears that all of John Angelos' net worth was tied into what the Orioles are worth. The group we have now already had many billions that they are working with in the war chest.

[CaptainRedbeard]

1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

I think a lot of things are possible. I know what he said last year, but it also appears there were genuine hurt feelings in Milwaukee.

I'm holding out hope that Burnes really likes it in Baltimore and is willing to take a ton of money to stay here before hitting the market. He still gets a huge deal, but is willing to take it from us before the Yankees jump in.

I think Burnes will be willing to take an extension if it’s what he/Boras thinks he would get as a free agent. But I don’t think we’re getting any kind of discount.  So we’d be bidding against the specter of the Dodgers/Yankees before it even happens.

If an extension happens, it’s going to be at midseason. By that time Rubenstein will have full control and we’ll have our hands-on insight into Burnes’ health/conditioning/etc and some opportunity to suggest whatever tweaks we want to make. Rubenstein may be looking to make a splash move. Burnes may like it here and be willing to lock in the contract early and eliminate and risk from injury/poor second half performance.

But the contract would be basically signing the dotted line of whatever Boras plans on walking into the Winter Meetings asking for. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

 

 

[Big Mac]

8 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

 There is no cash transaction.  Players are paid during the season not offseason-his bi monthly salary is payable starting the second week of the regular season-mid April-that's when he hits payroll.

While the specifics of a deal like this are vastly different, typically in an M&A transaction once the deal terms have been agreed upon but before the transaction actually closes, there are restrictions on what the seller can do to the business during that interim period.  I've never done a sale of a sports franchise and I am sure that there are significant structural differences, but I'd think there was a bit of a holding pattern on making anything beyond minor moves in some way. 

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

 

But with this new ownership coming in we are certainly NOT anything close to a small market anymore. As a matter of fact as I stated several times now, if you take Rubenstein's and Arougheti's net worths alone, the sum total adds up to more than all but TWO current owners (Braves and Mets). And that does not include the financial power of a Michael Bloomberg who has more money that both combined X3 almost at $17+ billion.

I think you are defining “small market” differently than I do.  For me, “market” has nothing to do with the wealth of the owners.   It relates to the ability of the team to generate revenue from its own operations.   And by that definition, Baltimore is a small market team, as MLB itself recognizes.  

Now, do our new owners have the wealth to subsidize the team if they want to?  Yes.   Do they have the resources to run the team at a modest loss for brief periods and then make up for it in other years?  Yes.   I believe very few owners subsidize their teams long term, while lots of owners run their teams at a loss for brief periods when they see a shot at the brass ring.  
 

[Rbiggs2525]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I think it was the financial commitment that is being referred to. It is clear that Angelos had no interest in taking on much financial commitment even if it meant increasing our World Series odds. As a matter of fact, out of all the times that I heard him speak to the media, I never even heard him express that as a primary goal (championship). The very first thing out of this owner's mouth (i.e. Twitter post) was about brining a World Series back to Baltimore. Also, we have to look at the net worth of the two groups of ownership (outgoing and incoming). One is clearly nothing like the other. It appears that all of John Angelos' net worth was tied into what the Orioles are worth. The group we have now already had many billions that they are working with in the war chest.

Billionaires don’t become that without penny pinching. I see rich people all the time make very shrewd moves that the everyday person wouldn’t. We all believe there will be a happy medium. Good influx of cash, new potential around the park, reinvestment in the park ( start with horrid tv and sound system).

[Hank Scorpio]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

I disagree totally about that. The "market size" speaks to the financial capabilities of the said owner of that team. It really has nothing to do with population size of the city. If that was the case why was Toronto run the way it was run before Rodgers sold the team given the size of that giant metropolis? Why was HOU run historically as a small market before this last decade given how great that population size is. Why isn't ARI (which is located in PHX) not run as a top 5 market/spender? Why is MIA run as a "small market" as compared to STL?

It's all about what the owner can afford and is willing to spend. Why else did the Padres go from bottom spenders to top spenders when the ownership changed hands? Why did DET go in the opposite direction? 

Eh, I think it's just a semantical disagreement.

The money ownership is willing to part with matters, but that's a different thing than market size. To me, market size refers specifically about the eyeballs available to your organization re: attendance & ad revenue, not the willingness of the owner to spend their own money or how they distribute the organizational revenue. 

Now, if you win a lot, I guess it's arguable that market size is a malleable thing. You could expand your eyeballs and acquire "new" fans.

The Yankees revenue is solely attributable to the ad revenue they bring in every year. Population. What they do with it is independent of that. Luckily for us, we may have a new ownership group who is hopefully willing to profit less and put more of it into payroll. They're off to a hot start, I'd say.