Jackson Holliday 2024

[Hank Scorpio]

Just now, interloper said:

For a 20-year old, no. It's been fantastic.

For someone angling to get on this 26-man roster this year, yes. It's not enough. 

Tough crowd lol. He's OPS'ing .921 - that's pretty darn good for any age, I'd contend. 

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Tough crowd lol. He's OPS'ing .921 - that's pretty darn good for any age, I'd contend. 

The OPS is good but it's heavily OBP-based, and IMO that just doesn't translate at the ML level unless he's also slugging. And considering that AAA is a offense-oriented level this year, his numbers just don't jump off the page as impressive. Again, they do as a 20-year old, but right now they won't translate unless he's slugging consistently like Stowers and Kjerstad have, like Cowser did, and like Mayo is doing now. Because otherwise he will simply be challenged with great stuff in the zone - he's just not going to walk like that up here. 

My opinion! I'm still very high on the kid. I just think it's a little early and he's going to be much improved as an overall hitter next year. 

Edited Friday at 15:56 by interloper

[LGOrioles]

Just now, interloper said:

The OPS is good but it's heavily OBP-based, and IMO that just doesn't translate at the ML level. He needs to slug. And considering that AAA is a offense-oriented level this year, his numbers just don't jump off the page as impressive. Again, they do as a 20-year old, but right now they won't translate unless he's slugging consistently like Stowers and Kjerstad have, like Cowser did, and like Mayo is doing now. Because otherwise he will simply be challenged with great stuff in the zone - he's just not going to walk like that up here. 

My opinion! I'm still very high on the kid. I just think it's a little early and he's going to be much improved as an overall hitter next year. 

He’s 6th out of 118 qualified hitters in the International League in wRC+. Among the 5 in front of him are Wood, Mayo, and Kjerstad. Holliday is by far the youngest of those top 6 (and anyone else in the top 35), with Wood being over a year older than him. His batting line is indeed heavily OBP based, but he’s still 42nd out of 118 qualified hitters in ISO. That puts him in about the 65th percentile, which at his age seems pretty damn good. I think if you’re expecting him to put up the power that Kjeestad or Mayo have showed, then sure it’s disappointing. But Holliday is a different player. If he walks 10-15% of the time while putting up an above average ISO, and doesn’t K a crazy amount, he’s going to be an all star. 

[Sports Guy]

30 minutes ago, interloper said:

No one cares about the 36 ABs. It's the sub-par AAA showing. 

But again, he's very young for the level, and will be fine, obviously. 

It's just going to be next year for him, that's all. And that's fine! But to simply ignore his performance this year in AAA and act like he's going to be an upgrade this year is just sticking your head in the sand. He needs to show consistent and improved power and hit tool. He's not doing that yet. I think he will next year at 21. 

Yea that subpar 900+ OPS really sucks!  
 

And yes, plenty of people care about those at bats.  You would have to be Stevie Wonder to not see that.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, LGOrioles said:

He’s 6th out of 118 qualified hitters in the International League in wRC+. Among the 5 in front of him are Wood, Mayo, and Kjerstad. Holliday is by far the youngest of those top 6 (and anyone else in the top 35), with Wood being over a year older than him. His batting line is indeed heavily OBP based, but he’s still 42nd out of 118 qualified hitters in ISO. That puts him in about the 65th percentile, which at his age seems pretty damn good. I think if you’re expecting him to put up the power that Kjeestad or Mayo have showed, then sure it’s disappointing. But Holliday is a different player. If he walks 10-15% of the time while putting up an above average ISO, and doesn’t K a crazy amount, he’s going to be an all star. 

Don’t bring facts, education or common sense into the discussion.  It’s not welcomed!

[emmett16]

15 minutes ago, interloper said:

The OPS is good but it's heavily OBP-based, and IMO that just doesn't translate at the ML level unless he's also slugging. And considering that AAA is a offense-oriented level this year, his numbers just don't jump off the page as impressive. Again, they do as a 20-year old, but right now they won't translate unless he's slugging consistently like Stowers and Kjerstad have, like Cowser did, and like Mayo is doing now. Because otherwise he will simply be challenged with great stuff in the zone - he's just not going to walk like that up here. 

My opinion! I'm still very high on the kid. I just think it's a little early and he's going to be much improved as an overall hitter next year. 

He’s slugging .476/.921

AAA SLG /OPS before promotion:

Henderson .504/.894

Adley .480/.879

Westburg .533/.899

Cowser .498/.896

Let’s not continue the narrative that he isn’t thriving at AAA.  

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, emmett16 said:

He’s slugging .476/.921

AAA SLG /OPS before promotion:

Henderson .504/.894

Adley .480/.879

Westburg .533/.899

Cowser .498/.896

Let’s not continue the narrative that he isn’t thriving at AAA.  

 

 

Plus Holliday is younger than all of the above listed players and that matters.

[Rbiggs2525]

I’d like to see Holliday back after ASB. Would like to see him cut down K’s and mini tear before that.

[emmett16]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

 

Plus Holliday is younger than all of the above listed players and that matters.

People expected him to be the savior when he arrived.  It was the first failure he ever experienced in his career.  Pretty incredible for his first ever  slump/failure to come at the MLB level at age 20.  Most folks face adversity well before then. 

[Frobby]

I think probably what’s bothering people the most is that Holliday was hitting unbelievably well as of his call-up (.333/.462/.595), and he hasn’t been at that level of domination since being sent down (.259/.437/.445).  Plus, his K rate was 14.3% before the call-up, 24.2% since.   Bottom line, his meteoric ascent last year and his fast start this year set crazy-high expectations that he’s not quite meeting.   Personally, I’m not worried at all, but I’d like to see his post-return BA back in the .300ish range before I’d be clamoring for another call-up.   

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

So,laughter and super supportive of Basallo while questioning everything that Holliday does.  Got it. No nit picking whether Basallo is really an elite athlete.

Are you directing that at me?    

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

People can’t separate the bad 34 at bats from reality.  

Those 34 at bats were real.   They don’t need to be separated from reality, they’re part of reality.   I’d say if you don’t consider them, you’re ignoring part of reality.  But they’re not everything.  And as I just said above, I think people are more nervous about the fact that his post-call up performance doesn’t match his pre-call up performance, specifically the BA and the K rate.   But, I consider those things to be relatively minor blips.  

[OriolesMagic83]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Are you directing that at me?    

Yes

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Yes

LOL.

1.  I never said Basallo was an elite athlete.

2. I’ve said I’d like to see Basallo improve his plate discipline similar to what he showed 2nd half last year.

3. Basallo also needs to keep improving defensively.

4. I hope Basallo can improve over the 2nd half of the season.

5. I’d like to see Holliday cut down the strikeouts and get his average over .300

6.  I think he has a flaw in his mechanics which causes him to pull off the ball.  I hope he corrects it.

 

Where’s the problem?

[Frobby]

I just want to riff on the term “elite athlete.”   To me, different people have different ideas of what level of quality is “elite,” and what it means to be an “athlete.”    For some people, “elite” means top 10% of the whole populace, for others it means top 0.1% of people who play professional sports.   Some people consider you “athletic” if you are very well coordinated and have good ability to learn skills, others don’t consider you “athletic” unless you could hold your own in the Olympic decathlon.   So a lot of times, people arguing about whether someone is an “elite athlete” are really talking past each other because they don’t ageee on what the term means.  

To me, most pro sports players are elite athletes, and it’s just a matter of how elite they are.   In the case of Holliday, he’s athletic enough to be an awesome baseball player, and that’s elite enough for me.