How far do you go to try to save this?

[Moose Milligan]

I'm refusing to get bent out of shape about Bradish not coming back.

IMO, if the Yankees can do what they've done for this chunk of the season without Cole, there's no reason we can't keep the pace with them despite only getting 39 innings from Bradish.  As I said earlier, Means wasn't counted on for much if anything.  Wells is Mr. Glass, it was only a matter of time before he was going to be tired, have to be shut down, etc.

We've still got Burnes who's a horse and we've still got G-Rod.  Kremer should be back soon and while I'm not a huge fan of his, he's solid.  It remains to be seen if Suarez will turn into a pumpkin or if he can keep being a find.  I like Irvin.

Yeah, it's not optimal but I still don't see this as some giant crisis.  We've got a stacked system that we can trade from to bring someone else in.  We've got a new owner who hopefully can spend some money and while I'm not a huge proponent of bringing Burnes back based on what he'll probably cost, I also might not mind it terribly depending on the years of the contract.

We've got one of the best and brightest front offices in the game.  Like I said, this isn't optimal but we've still got a lot going for us.  

[btdart20]

5 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

Read Astroball if you really think Crane is the reason for the Astros success. Both teams success was driven by letting the baseball people do their jobs, and the recent failures were when they started getting  more involved.

Agree here too.  Rubenstein (and Cal) should let the staff make decisions.  But owners and management work together on goals/resources.

A key unknown going forward is whether payroll will be a bottleneck.  The JA/Elias tandem was the ROI/tank model to maximize value for revenues/market value of the company.  I'm confident "lift off" and the sale has shifted the direction of the paradigm (i.e. the KPIs are different).  It's the degree I think we quibble over.

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

Read Astroball if you really think Crane is the reason for the Astros success. Both teams success was driven by letting the baseball people do their jobs, and the recent failures were when they started getting  more involved.

Baseball ops is one part of the org. If the success of the baseball ops was all that mattered the Rays would be a dynasty.

[O's84]

Tyler Wells' nickname should be Charles VI.

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, O's84 said:

  

 

I know pitching injuries are up.  But how many teams have lost an ace closer, a #1 starter, #3, and a high leverage guy?  That was what I was alluding to, it's that they are all key injuries and that they are all going to be sidelined for a long time.  As for Danny, he'll be back but will he back in time for the stretch run? Let's hope because we need all the late inning help we can get.

And just for the record I never said that all is lost.  But Elias will have to get some key pieces at the deadline if we want a shot at a WS.

I agree with the last paragraph.

One thing I disagree with, sine Corbin Burnes has donned an Orioles jersey he has been the unquestioned #1. Bradish was our #1 last season.

[O's84]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

I agree with the last paragraph.

One thing I disagree with, sine Corbin Burnes has donned an Orioles jersey he has been the unquestioned #1. Bradish was our #1 last season.

I was referring more that Bradish could be a #1 on many other teams.  So what I was really saying is we had two #1's and now we've lost one.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Bemorewins]

15 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

The dodger were also in the top half of league payroll every year for the ten years leading up there ale often in the top 7-10 teams. So that’s also not accurate 

What???

You are telling that you haven’t seen a dramatic change in how the Dodgers have been run since their ownership changed hands?

If your answer is “no”, then there is really no point in us continuing to converse.

[Frobby]

I’d prefer to have Bradish healthy, but the team is 42-23 in games started by other pitchers.  Before Bradish was activated, the team was 19-11.  In the games since his last start, they’re 3-1.   They can survive the loss of Bradish and the others.  They just need to be prepared if even more injuries strike.

[DirtyBird]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

 In the games since his last start, they’re 3-1.   

Small sample size

[casadeozo]

18 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What???

You are telling that you haven’t seen a dramatic change in how the Dodgers have been run since their ownership changed hands?

If your answer is “no”, then there is really no point in us continuing to converse.

You stated they "were never a top payroll team" before new ownership. That is not factually true. 

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

You stated they "were never a top payroll team" before new ownership. That is not factually true. 

How many years did they have a top 3-5 payroll before the ownership change? How many years top 7?

I like how you have morphed the conversation. My point was and is OWNERSHIP/THE TOP OF ANY EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATION MATTERS. Not the Dodgers payroll. 

You seem to be arguing that baseball ops are most important. And while I agree that for a baseball org, baseball ops are extremely important, we have seen from the most glaring example the Tampa Rays, that excellence/championship success requires more than incredibly efficient/effective baseball ops.

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

How many years did they have a top 3-5 payroll before the ownership change? How many years top 7?

I like how you have morphed the conversation. My point was and is OWNERSHIP/THE TOP OF ANY EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATION MATTERS. Not the Dodgers payroll. 

You seem to be arguing that baseball ops are most important. And while I agree that for a baseball org, baseball ops are extremely important, we have seen from the most glaring example the Tampa Rays, that excellence/championship success requires more than incredibly efficient/effective baseball ops.

If the payroll doesn't matter and baseball ops aren't the most important, why exactly is OWNERSHIP/THE TOP OF ANY EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATION the most important thing? 

[Moose Milligan]

I like it when Malike gets all feisty and types in all caps.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

48 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm refusing to get bent out of shape about Bradish not coming back.

IMO, if the Yankees can do what they've done for this chunk of the season without Cole, there's no reason we can't keep the pace with them despite only getting 39 innings from Bradish.  As I said earlier, Means wasn't counted on for much if anything.  Wells is Mr. Glass, it was only a matter of time before he was going to be tired, have to be shut down, etc.

We've still got Burnes who's a horse and we've still got G-Rod.  Kremer should be back soon and while I'm not a huge fan of his, he's solid.  It remains to be seen if Suarez will turn into a pumpkin or if he can keep being a find.  I like Irvin.

Yeah, it's not optimal but I still don't see this as some giant crisis.  We've got a stacked system that we can trade from to bring someone else in.  We've got a new owner who hopefully can spend some money and while I'm not a huge proponent of bringing Burnes back based on what he'll probably cost, I also might not mind it terribly depending on the years of the contract.

We've got one of the best and brightest front offices in the game.  Like I said, this isn't optimal but we've still got a lot going for us.  

I think Elias is going to try and add another starting pitcher for depth as the #3 in this rotation. Irvin and Suarez have been good surprises, but I don't know if you can count on the both of them starting every 5 days for the rest of the season.

An established veteran starter would go a long way to bolster the starting rotation for the second half of the season.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

If the payroll doesn't matter and baseball ops aren't the most important, why exactly is OWNERSHIP/THE TOP OF ANY EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATION the most important thing? 

Payroll obviously matters, look at the history of World Series winners in the last 15- 20 years. I never said it didn’t.