What makes Basallo so untouchable?

[CP0861]

10 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

When you consider that he was signed as a 16 year old with what I'm guessing would have been limited training and compare that to where he is now...I really would be hesitant to trade him.

 

Imagine where he would be if he had the resources that a lot of the young draftees from the States had. There's a lot of talent in the top 10, but he will be moving up the list as the season goes on.

I think that goes both ways though. He was playing pro ball under pro instruction at 16 when the US guys were playing HS varsity and still years away from pro instruction. The travel ball system in the US is extremely flawed. The kids live to play baseball in other countries and they DO have baseball resources available...how else could he have been on a MLB teams radar at 15 years old?

Edited July 1 by CP0861

[Frobby]

I don't think Basallo is untouchable.   You just don't trade him unless you are getting a no. 1-2 starter with several years of control remaining.

I expect him to be a very good major league hitter but still worry about his defense.  I picked this up from the Fangraphs org review yesterday:

"His arm strength is great and there were times last year when it looked incredible, but Basallo has been popping closer to 1.95 so far this year and his footwork is often pretty sloppy. As is true of a lot of catchers his age, he could stand to be more accurate and consistent coming out of his crouch. His receiving isn’t good, but it isn’t so terrible that it damns him to first base. His ball blocking might though, and it’s this area of Basallo’s game that most needs to improve. If this skill doesn’t progress, or if his size quickly forces him to move out from behind the plate, then his issues with chase would suddenly become more of a problem, though we’re probably still talking about a strong enough hit/power combo for Basallo to be an everyday first baseman."

Basallo is young enough that he may overcome his defensive shortcomings and remain at C, but that remains a real risk for me.

[sportsfan8703]

I'm not sure if it's been posted or not but his RC+ at 19 in AA is up there with names like Soto, Acuna, Holliday, Camineiro.  

I think we have arguably 3 of the top 5-7 prospects in baseball with Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo.  

[CP0861]

5 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

Just curious.  Are you also a 6 figure-earning day trader who used to drink with Kato Kaelin?

Nah man. Sorry you may not agree with me, but I'm definitely not that guy.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't think Basallo is untouchable.   You just don't trade him unless you are getting a no. 1-2 starter with several years of control remaining.

I expect him to be a very good major league hitter but still worry about his defense.  I picked this up from the Fangraphs org review yesterday:

"His arm strength is great and there were times last year when it looked incredible, but Basallo has been popping closer to 1.95 so far this year and his footwork is often pretty sloppy. As is true of a lot of catchers his age, he could stand to be more accurate and consistent coming out of his crouch. His receiving isn’t good, but it isn’t so terrible that it damns him to first base. His ball blocking might though, and it’s this area of Basallo’s game that most needs to improve. If this skill doesn’t progress, or if his size quickly forces him to move out from behind the plate, then his issues with chase would suddenly become more of a problem, though we’re probably still talking about a strong enough hit/power combo for Basallo to be an everyday first baseman."

Basallo is young enough that he may overcome his defensive shortcomings and remain at C, but that remains a real risk for me.

I’d argue that if you trade him, you do it for a positional player, not a pitcher.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

Grow the bats, buy (or trade for) the arms.

Correct, but it only works if 1) there are arms to buy and 2) one is willing to pay the price. At the moment, it seems there’s a miss on both of those.

With that in mind, I’m fascinated to see what the draft choices will be.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’d argue that if you trade him, you do it for a positional player, not a pitcher.

Interesting.   What position?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

Interesting.   What position?

I don’t know..it would probably have to be a CFer. That seems to be the one position where we at least have some long term doubt.

[Malike]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And they suspend him.

And he tanks his value.

 

I know what you're doing here, but you know that teams value their assets. No team who is pitching Crochet this year is throwing him 200 innings after throwing 25 in two years and never started before. He could say I have a dead arm, end of story, images can't disprove that.

Teams that invest tens of millions of dollars on players or send a ton of prospect capital for a player aren't going to hose their investment. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Malike said:

I know what you're doing here, but you know that teams value their assets. No team who is pitching Crochet this year is throwing him 200 innings after throwing 25 in two years and never started before. He could say I have a dead arm, end of story, images can't disprove that.

Teams that invest tens of millions of dollars on players or send a ton of prospect capital for a player aren't going to hose their investment. 

Correct. The agreement doesn’t have to be in place imo. It’s just common sense.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Interesting.   What position?

Second base.

[Malike]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Correct. The agreement doesn’t have to be in place imo. It’s just common sense.

I can't think of a single team that doesn't do this with their own players let alone one that you've traded really valuable prospects for, and if the pitcher, who knows his body and doesn't want to take another 2 year break from the game says I can't do it and you force him to, then that's an org I wouldn't want to be a fan of.

[CP0861]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I'm not sure if it's been posted or not but his RC+ at 19 in AA is up there with names like Soto, Acuna, Holliday, Camineiro.  

I think we have arguably 3 of the top 5-7 prospects in baseball with Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo.  

Soto played 8 games in AA and was in the majors at 19. Not sure that's a decent comp.

Acuna only spent 57 games in AA and his numbers were better. Not insanely better, but .326/.895 compared to .281/.800. Definitely better.

Camineiro's numbers were also significantly better. 20 hr's in 81 games. .309/.921. He was also in MLB at 19.

Holliday was only there for 36 games. .338/.928.

I think lists like that are part of the problem with ranking/comparing players. To me, looking at their AA numbers, Basallo does not quite belong to be mentioned in that group. But it's subjective I suppose.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Malike said:

I know what you're doing here, but you know that teams value their assets. No team who is pitching Crochet this year is throwing him 200 innings after throwing 25 in two years and never started before. He could say I have a dead arm, end of story, images can't disprove that.

Teams that invest tens of millions of dollars on players or send a ton of prospect capital for a player aren't going to hose their investment. 

I'm not saying you are wrong but I don't know of any data that supports the theory.

Anyway I was just going over a hypothetical.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

Grow the bats, buy (or trade for) the arms.

The grow the bats is working really well.

The arms part, not to much. They're not coming from the recent amateur drafts or international signings. Elias has been unwilling to part with top position-player talent to get top pitching talent (other than a year of Burnes for the obviously redundant Ortiz). The Orioles are unlikely to be able and willing to outbid the higher-revenue teams (NYYs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, Giants, Astros, Mets, etc.) for real good free-agent pitchers, who will get contracts that call for them to paid big dollars  well after they are likely to be productive.