Fix the bullpen 2025

[EddeeEddee]

6 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Felix Bautista and pick up Seranthony's option.

Spend the savings on starting pitching or Santander

We have no idea how reliable Bautista (or Wells) will be next season.  They need to bring in at least one other big relief arm.  It doesn't have to be one of the really pricey ones, but hopefully someone better than a mid 30s Craig Kimbrel.  

 

[EddeeEddee]

13 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

If you don't draft and develop pitching then you have to spend on pitching, it's that simple.

 

Or you have to trade for it. 

I'm guessing the argument for not aggressively going after big name FA relief (or big names in a trade) next season are 1) low value relative to cost and 2) relief pitching can be inconsistent.

But the argument for aggressively going after big name relief next season 1) top relievers are true difference makes (see Andrew Miller, Zach Britton, etc),  2) the O's bullpen is pretty easily the weakest part of the team -- perhaps the worst bullpen ever on a contending O's team, 3) and while Bautista and Coulombe should be back and healthy, we don't know how reliable they will be / pitchers especially keep getting hurt.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, EddeeEddee said:

Or you have to trade for it. 

I'm guessing the argument for not aggressively going after big name FA relief (or big names in a trade) next season are 1) low value relative to cost and 2) relief pitching can be inconsistent.

But the argument for aggressively going after big name relief next season 1) top relievers are true difference makes (see Andrew Miller, Zach Britton, etc),  2) the O's bullpen is pretty easily the weakest part of the team -- perhaps the worst bullpen ever on a contending O's team, 3) and while Bautista and Coulombe should be back and healthy, we don't know how reliable they will be / pitchers especially keep getting hurt.

 

You pay for it one way or another.

You pay money, you pay draft capital, you pay in prospects.

The issue I have with trading prospects is the exchange rate, you are trading two or three for one.

[SemperFi]

5 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Or you have to trade for it. 

I'm guessing the argument for not aggressively going after big name FA relief (or big names in a trade) next season are 1) low value relative to cost and 2) relief pitching can be inconsistent.

But the argument for aggressively going after big name relief next season 1) top relievers are true difference makes (see Andrew Miller, Zach Britton, etc),  2) the O's bullpen is pretty easily the weakest part of the team -- perhaps the worst bullpen ever on a contending O's team, 3) and while Bautista and Coulombe should be back and healthy, we don't know how reliable they will be / pitchers especially keep getting hurt.

 

Yes-I caught that and changed it just after I posted.  Obviously it depends who ME covets but I don't think it's a coincidence the bullpen does not have a contract other than Bautista on the books.

There is simply no one in the bullpen that hitters fear, Bautista coming back will help dramatically-if healthy.  I don't think "dumpster diving" is an effective strategy especially with the Orioles claiming later on the waiver wire.

 

[Aristotelian]

46 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

We have no idea how reliable Bautista (or Wells) will be next season.  They need to bring in at least one other big relief arm.  It doesn't have to be one of the really pricey ones, but hopefully someone better than a mid 30s Craig Kimbrel.  

 

Kimbrel cost $14m. Anyone better than him is going to be "big".

[EddeeEddee]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Kimbrel cost $14m. Anyone better than him is going to be "big".

So much depends on Bautista and how he looks.  Either way I like the idea of someone like Aroldis Chapman on a 1-2 year deal as the power lefty.  

If they remain concerned about Bautista then that changes things.  

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, dystopia said:

Johnson blew like 8 or 9 saves in 2013. 

In 2012, Johnson was 2-1 with 51 saves in 71 appearances. He had a 170 ERA+

In 2013, Johnson was 3-8 with 50 saves in 74 games. He had a 139 ERA+.

Thats pretty consistent.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, SemperFi said:

Yes-I caught that and changed it just after I posted.  Obviously it depends who ME covets but I don't think it's a coincidence the bullpen does not have a contract other than Bautista on the books.

There is simply no one in the bullpen that hitters fear, Bautista coming back will help dramatically-if healthy.  I don't think "dumpster diving" is an effective strategy especially with the Orioles claiming later on the waiver wire.

 

It’s a terrible idea if that’s all you do, but of course he’s had success with dumpster diving before so he should continue doing it, but he shouldn’t rely on that for all, or most, of his acquisitions. And he should stay away from old guys who are full of past glory and nothing else.

Edited August 24 by HowAboutThat

[Sports Guy]

100% we should be looking for another high leverage reliever this offseason. Everyone is assuming Bautista will be back and be fine. Absolutely shouldn’t count on that.

He can certainly enter the year as the closer but I want more options in case he’s not the guy he was in 2023.

[HowAboutThat]

8 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Felix Bautista and pick up Seranthony's option.

Spend the savings on starting pitching or Santander

I agree with this, although I don’t know how much Soto will cost. If he has options,  and isn’t too expensive, I’d be happy keeping him and putting him in Norfolk. But only if he’s cheap. Otherwise cut bait.

As an addendum to my previous note, I’d look at Oakland, Seattle, Anaheim and Chicago, to see what they have(Try to trade for Brent Rooker, too. He hits better than Santander, is faster, MUCH cheaper, and ten days younger.)

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

100% we should be looking for another high leverage reliever this offseason. Everyone is assuming Bautista will be back and be fine. Absolutely shouldn’t count on that.

He can certainly enter the year as the closer but I want more options in case he’s not the guy he was in 2023.

Dominguez has an option. We probably aren't getting anyone better than him for the money.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Dominguez has an option. We probably aren't getting anyone better than him for the money.

I didn’t say not keep Him.  

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I didn’t say not keep Him.  

Assuming everyone is healthy (knock on wood), I don't even see a spot on the roster for another acquisition:

Bautista, Cano, Seranthony, Coulombe, Perez, Webb, Akin is six guys who are either out of options or permanent high leverage guys. That leaves just two spots for all our other in house guys, including Wells and the prospects like McDermott and Young, plus the random guys Elias and Sig like to experiment with. (G. Soto is an option as well). 

In an ideal world where budget is unlimited, yeah, we could trade off Akin and then sign an Estevez/Williams type, but I don't think we will ever be in that world under Elias. So more likely it's going to be Seranthony or a free agent, not both, IMO. 

 

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Assuming everyone is healthy (knock on wood), I don't even see a spot on the roster for another acquisition:

Bautista, Cano, Seranthony, Coulombe, Perez, Webb, Akin is six guys who are either out of options or permanent high leverage guys. That leaves just two spots for all our other in house guys, including Wells and the prospects like McDermott and Young, plus the random guys Elias and Sig like to experiment with. (G. Soto is an option as well). 

In an ideal world where budget is unlimited, yeah, we could trade off Akin and then sign an Estevez/Williams type, but I don't think we will ever be in that world under Elias. So more likely it's going to be Seranthony or a free agent, not both, IMO. 

 

Wells shouldn’t be in consideration for anything. You are discounting the bullpen and its importance too much. Mentioning Webb and Perez as if we cant and shouldn’t try to upgrade from them is wrong. Aim higher. The pen needs at least one huge upgrade outside of Bautista coming back.

[LookitsPuck]

Can’t go into next year overly relying on Felix. They definitely need to sign at least 1 bullpen arm. Ideally 2. 

Felix, Seranthony, Coulombe, Perez, Webb, Cano and I guess Akin.

Don't bring back Soto.

Sign another arm. Maybe 2.