The New Guys

[LookitsPuck]

This post is just about guys that were acquired this year - either before or during the season or brought up this season...and quite simply looking at their bWAR. 

OFFENSE

• Austin Slater: 0.4 (0.2 oWAR, 0.1 dWAR)
• Livan Soto: 0.3 (0.2, 0.1)
• Emmanuel Rivera: 0.1 (0.4, -0.3)
• Connor Norby: 0.1 (-0.1, 0.1)
• Christian Pache: 0.1 (0.1, 0)
• Nick Maton: -0.1 (-0.1, 0)
• Tony Kemp: -0.2 (-0.2, 0)
• Eloy Jimenez: -0.2 (-0.2, -0.2)
• Jackson Holliday: -0.3 (-0.1, 0)
• Coby Mayo: -0.7 (-0.5, -0.2)

PITCHING

• Corbin Burnes: 2.9
• Albert Suarez: 2.2
• Zach Eflin: 1.6
• Matt Bowman: 0.4
• Seranthony Dominguez: 0.4
• Colin Selby: 0.2
• Vinny Nittoli: 0.1
• Thyago Vieira: 0.0 (probably would be lower if he recorded a single out, lol)
• Yohan Ramirez: -0.1
• Chayce McDermott: -0.1
• Matt Krook: -0.1
• Gregory Soto: -0.3
• Trevor Rogers: -0.4
• Burch Smith: -0.4
• Jonathan Heasley: -0.6
• Cade Povich: -0.8
• Craig Kimbrel: -1.1

So, pitching by and large has been excellent as far as starters, pretty good with the midseason bullpen arms, but definite misses on Craig Kimbrel, Trevor Rogers, and overall, due to him being very situational/not trusted, Soto. 

The offense...man, absolutely brutal. There have been hits on the role players (Slater, Soto, Rivera), but good lord the detrimental play by Holliday and Mayo followed by Eloy running poorly, not being able to defend and now no longer hitting at all really speaks volumes. 

[maybenxtyr]

6 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

This post is just about guys that were acquired this year - either before or during the season or brought up this season...and quite simply looking at their bWAR. 

OFFENSE

• Austin Slater: 0.4 (0.2 oWAR, 0.1 dWAR)
• Livan Soto: 0.3 (0.2, 0.1)
• Emmanuel Rivera: 0.1 (0.4, -0.3)
• Connor Norby: 0.1 (-0.1, 0.1)
• Christian Pache: 0.1 (0.1, 0)
• Nick Maton: -0.1 (-0.1, 0)
• Tony Kemp: -0.2 (-0.2, 0)
• Eloy Jimenez: -0.2 (-0.2, -0.2)
• Jackson Holliday: -0.3 (-0.1, 0)
• Coby Mayo: -0.7 (-0.5, -0.2)

PITCHING

• Corbin Burnes: 2.9
• Albert Suarez: 2.2
• Zach Eflin: 1.6
• Matt Bowman: 0.4
• Seranthony Dominguez: 0.4
• Colin Selby: 0.2
• Vinny Nittoli: 0.1
• Thyago Vieira: 0.0 (probably would be lower if he recorded a single out, lol)
• Yohan Ramirez: -0.1
• Chayce McDermott: -0.1
• Matt Krook: -0.1
• Gregory Soto: -0.3
• Trevor Rogers: -0.4
• Burch Smith: -0.4
• Jonathan Heasley: -0.6
• Cade Povich: -0.8
• Craig Kimbrel: -1.1

So, pitching by and large has been excellent as far as starters, pretty good with the midseason bullpen arms, but definite misses on Craig Kimbrel, Trevor Rogers, and overall, due to him being very situational/not trusted, Soto. 

The offense...man, absolutely brutal. There have been hits on the role players (Slater, Soto, Rivera), but good lord the detrimental play by Holliday and Mayo followed by Eloy running poorly, not being able to defend and now no longer hitting at all really speaks volumes. 

Holliday and Mayo will probably be counted on as everyday players next year, and I'm just not sure that they'll be ready for it.

 

Outside of a week Holliday hasn't shown any major progression on defense or offense. I'm not questioning his ability or pedigree, just concerned about them handing him an everyday job in 2025.

 

Mayo...i don't know what to say. Obviously his reps haven't been as frequent,  but that's 2 positions with question marks. 

 

I think Urias and Mateo will be almost guaranteed to be back next season. Perhaps a couple of the roll players on your list will as well.

[sportsfan8703]

38 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

This post is just about guys that were acquired this year - either before or during the season or brought up this season...and quite simply looking at their bWAR. 

OFFENSE

• Austin Slater: 0.4 (0.2 oWAR, 0.1 dWAR)
• Livan Soto: 0.3 (0.2, 0.1)
• Emmanuel Rivera: 0.1 (0.4, -0.3)
• Connor Norby: 0.1 (-0.1, 0.1)
• Christian Pache: 0.1 (0.1, 0)
• Nick Maton: -0.1 (-0.1, 0)
• Tony Kemp: -0.2 (-0.2, 0)
• Eloy Jimenez: -0.2 (-0.2, -0.2)
• Jackson Holliday: -0.3 (-0.1, 0)
• Coby Mayo: -0.7 (-0.5, -0.2)

PITCHING

• Corbin Burnes: 2.9
• Albert Suarez: 2.2
• Zach Eflin: 1.6
• Matt Bowman: 0.4
• Seranthony Dominguez: 0.4
• Colin Selby: 0.2
• Vinny Nittoli: 0.1
• Thyago Vieira: 0.0 (probably would be lower if he recorded a single out, lol)
• Yohan Ramirez: -0.1
• Chayce McDermott: -0.1
• Matt Krook: -0.1
• Gregory Soto: -0.3
• Trevor Rogers: -0.4
• Burch Smith: -0.4
• Jonathan Heasley: -0.6
• Cade Povich: -0.8
• Craig Kimbrel: -1.1

So, pitching by and large has been excellent as far as starters, pretty good with the midseason bullpen arms, but definite misses on Craig Kimbrel, Trevor Rogers, and overall, due to him being very situational/not trusted, Soto. 

The offense...man, absolutely brutal. There have been hits on the role players (Slater, Soto, Rivera), but good lord the detrimental play by Holliday and Mayo followed by Eloy running poorly, not being able to defend and now no longer hitting at all really speaks volumes. 

Thanks for putting this together.  It sheds some perspective on the season.  Where would we be without Suarez and Eflin?

[MCO'sFan]

25 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Holliday and Mayo will probably be counted on as everyday players next year, and I'm just not sure that they'll be ready for it.

 

Outside of a week Holliday hasn't shown any major progression on defense or offense. I'm not questioning his ability or pedigree, just concerned about them handing him an everyday job in 2025.

 

Mayo...i don't know what to say. Obviously his reps haven't been as frequent,  but that's 2 positions with question marks. 

 

I think Urias and Mateo will be almost guaranteed to be back next season. Perhaps a couple of the roll players on your list will as well.

I don't think that Mayo and Holliday will be counted on as everyday players, certainly not both of them and Mateo and Urias on the roster. I can see Holliday at 2B with Westburg at 3B with Urias and Mateo on the bench. I'm not saying they should be on the team but only 3 of Mayo, Holliday, Urias and Mateo make the team barring injury to someone else. 

[Fiver6565]

Holliday and Mayo being completely useless has really been the dagger for me.  We saw scores of posts on here that they should be called up because they can at least out produce player X - well, that has turned out be way off base, because these two can't out produce anybody. I had been thinking that at least one if not both them would be useful if not vital cogs in the bottom of the line up at this point.  Instead, Livan Soto and Emmanuel Rivera are running laps around them from a production standpoint, FFS. 

Urias and Mateo right around 1 bWAR each (if I'm reading the table  at BBref correctly).  We miss those guys way more than most people who wanted to DFA them early in the season would have thought.  I don't think there's any question they are around next year - Elias will be paranoid AF about position player depth now, and rightfully so.

[Too Tall]

I don't think we (Elias) goes into next year counting on Holliday or Mayo. Cowser and Special K maybe.  Hence, I think we will be shopping for more than just pitching. That's why I said in other threads, this offseason will be interesting particularly with (hopefully) a bigger budget. 

 

[theobird]

Urias, Mateo and Mullins are all locks for next year, IMO. We have learned a very hard lesson. Top prospects do not a major leaguer make.

[Sports Guy]

 

[survivedc]

8 hours ago, maybenxtyr said:

Holliday and Mayo will probably be counted on as everyday players next year, and I'm just not sure that they'll be ready for it.

 

Outside of a week Holliday hasn't shown any major progression on defense or offense. I'm not questioning his ability or pedigree, just concerned about them handing him an everyday job in 2025.

 

Mayo...i don't know what to say. Obviously his reps haven't been as frequent,  but that's 2 positions with question marks. 

 

I think Urias and Mateo will be almost guaranteed to be back next season. Perhaps a couple of the roll players on your list will as well.

I guess depending on what you mean by “major progression” re Holidays defense. I’m not sure what the stats say, but I was wincing every time the ball was hit his way in early August. Outside of one glaring error, he has had a clean September and has made some nice plays as well.

[Sports Guy]

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

 

[Yossarian]

48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Solid pick ups.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

51 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

 

Not sure why you posted a pic of McCann...

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Putting aside the issue of “not counting” stats that don’t fit the argument, I’m curious who he would have had hit there.

What were the other options?

Eloy Jimenez (1 for his last 23)

Coby Mayo (3 for 37 with 21 Ks as a pro)

Jackson Holliday (0 for last 22 vs LHPs  with 12 Ks)

Livan Soto (~.600 career AAA OPS vs LHPs)

 

Not saying Slater was some slam dunk pick, but I honestly don’t really even understand how folks can criticize Hyde for those types of decisions anymore. Every lever he has available to pull is clearly marked *WRONG* in flashing red lights. 

Edited 9 hours ago by e16bball

[terpoh]

36 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Putting aside the issue of “not counting” stats that don’t fit the argument, I’m curious who he would have had hit there.

What were the other options?

Eloy Jimenez (1 for his last 23)

Coby Mayo (3 for 37 with 21 Ks as a pro)

Jackson Holliday (0 for last 22 vs LHPs  with 12 Ks)

Livan Soto (~.600 career AAA OPS vs LHPs)

 

Not saying Slater was some slam dunk pick, but I honestly don’t really even understand how folks can criticize Hyde for those types of decisions anymore. Every lever he has available to pull is clearly marked *WRONG* in flashing red lights. 

If this was the 8th or 9th inning I would agree.  But to lose someone for the rest of the game in the 6th? Just leave Holliday in. He would’ve had another at bat against a righty later anyways.