Still think this team didn't choke under pressure?

[waroriole]

Just now, baltfan said:

Urias is the problem on that he is in the way of the only way this team wins.  Develop the young players. 

The young players like Mayo and Holliday who were trash all season?

[Bemorewins]

21 minutes ago, milbest77 said:

Nothing will change. We’ll get the injury excuses and they won’t sign anyone of note.

I think they just assumed they would repeat 2023’s performance, but so many things went right last year. They should have struck while the iron was hot, but instead made a bunch of “meh” moves ( excluding the Burnes trade) giving off the illusion they were “going for it.”

Anyone who thinks Hyde is getting fired is delusional. Like the Harbaugh Ravens, continuity is the name of the game!

I don't think Rubenstein can afford to operate his business in this fashion. It was obvious to see how disengaged the fanbase was with all the empty seats in these two postseason games and even the atmosphere in the stadium.

I don't think you can sell the fanbase/market on "Everything is okay. We don't need to make any changes or meaningful additions." 

Having lived here and observed how the fans interact with the much more successful Ravens, I knew that the fans weren't going to continue to be okay with the "well at least we had a winning record"mantra. This community wants to support winners or at least it's professional franchises exhausting every effort in order to win. The Baltimore Ravens went to the AFC championship and it wasn't enough/satisfying to most fans in this community.

The Orioles have been a playoff team now for two years in a row and haven't won a game in either October. The challenge for the franchise going into next season is going to answer the fans' collective question - "What will be different this time?"

[allquixotic]

7 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Absolutely.  The Rays get back their top 3 starters next year. The Sox are on our heels and have 4 top 25 prospects with $$$. The NYY are the Yankees. Maybe we finish above the Jays. Things are getting dire and no one wants to admit it.  I would clean house of guys like Mounty and Urias. Let the young guys play. See what you have. Holliday has to turn into a pure hitter.  Heston needs to develop.  If you trust your development people, let them play 

The problem is, whoever's coaching the top-level MLB product is also coaching the up-and-coming guys like Kjerstad and Holliday. And they're going to make the same mistakes as Adley and Gunnar because the same people are giving them the same, bad advice.

How else do you explain Holliday hitting well under the Mendoza line, after coming up like a rocketship through the minors? It's clear the guy has raw physical talent to hit a baseball, but somehow, he lets these guys in the big leagues adjust his approach, and he becomes worthless at the plate. Like, an average big league pitcher isn't that much better than an AAA pitcher, are they? I could understand if he struggled against elite MLB pitchers, but he struggles against anyone wearing an MLB uniform. Hard to explain.

I just hope the world series isn't the two highest-salaried teams. I'm sick and tired of money being the #1 determinant of a team's chances of success. I wouldn't mind a mid-market team winning the WS to stick it to the man. That's the last hope I have for this season and for baseball in general.

[badmamajama]

Is this allowed? I thought we needed to be better fans.

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, EddeeEddee said:

You go with the guys who can hit now.  It's laughable to complain the O's just lost because they couldn't hit and then suggest the fix was to bat Coby Mayo or Jackson Holliday.  Mayo showed he wasn't ready yet -- Holliday too.

Urias is what he is going to be.  The others have room to grow. Get the guys standing in their way out of the way.  

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

They also need to look to see if the way we are training hitters in the minors is hurting their major league performance. The selectivity that works in the minors with mediocre pitching isn’t going to work as well in the MLB and will work even worse in the playoffs.  We need guys that can hit good pitches. Too many of our guys can only hit mistakes. 

It's pretty clear that how the Orioles develop hitters does not work at the major league level. Major league pitchers don't make as many mistakes. Every talented hitter than has come up has struggled at first, until they were able to make the major league adjustments. Maybe teach guys to be effective right of the bat?

The entire systems hitting philosophy needs to be changed top to bottom.

[EddeeEddee]

Just now, allquixotic said:

The problem is, whoever's coaching the top-level MLB product is also coaching the up-and-coming guys like Kjerstad and Holliday. And they're going to make the same mistakes as Adley and Gunnar because the same people are giving them the same, bad advice.

How else do you explain Holliday hitting well under the Mendoza line, after coming up like a rocketship through the minors? It's clear the guy has raw physical talent to hit a baseball, but somehow, he lets these guys in the big leagues adjust his approach, and he becomes worthless at the plate. Like, an average big league pitcher isn't that much better than an AAA pitcher, are they? I could understand if he struggled against elite MLB pitchers, but he struggles against anyone wearing an MLB uniform. Hard to explain.

Yes, they are.  It happens all the time.  

[Can_of_corn]

12 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I don't think Rubenstein can afford to operate his business in this fashion. It was obvious to see how disengaged the fanbase was with all the empty seats in these two postseason games and even the atmosphere in the stadium.

I don't think you can sell the fanbase/market on "Everything is okay. We don't need to make any changes or meaningful additions." 

Having lived here and observed how the fans interact with the much more successful Ravens, I knew that the fans weren't going to continue to be okay with the "well at least we had a winning record"mantra. This community wants to support winners or at least it's professional franchises exhausting every effort in order to win. The Baltimore Ravens went to the AFC championship and it wasn't enough/satisfying to most fans in this community.

The Orioles have been a playoff team now for two years in a row and haven't won a game in either October. The challenge for the franchise going into next season is going to answer the fans' collective question - "What will be different this time?"

Odd take on a number of levels.

1- Rubenstein is incredible wealthy, he can afford to have the O's be a vanity project that loses money.

2- Angelos the younger made a ton of profit off a team with much lower attendance.  You don't spend much and revenue sharing pays for your roster.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Can_of_corn

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, badmamajama said:

Is this allowed? I thought we needed to be better fans.

Nothing cracks me up more than someone questioning the fandom of someone who points out the obvious. 

Pollyanna #3. 

[Bemorewins]

25 minutes ago, baltfan said:

We are going the way of the Blue Jays.  Remember what they looked like they were going to become a few years ago.  Changes need to be made.  Hyde needs to be gone. Guys need to spend the offseason working on their weaknesses. They won’t do this if Hyde is the manager and they know they have a spot secured.  

This has always been my fear. We would continue to hedge all the while time keeps ticking away and we win nothing. At some point the present has to matter and you can't keep playing for next year.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm inclined to agree that this group isn't the group to get it done.  

Really curious to see if Adley can get back to what he was in 2025.  

Mounty, Tony, O'Hearn need to go.  Free swinging hackers who swing and miss.

Hyde isn't the problem.  Maybe we overrated our precious prospects and youthful talent.  I think that's as likely as anything.

[EddeeEddee]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

Urias is what he is going to be.  The others have room to grow. Get the guys standing in their way out of the way.  

Urias is not standing in anyone's way.  Mayo got his chances and failed as hard as anyone can fail.  You keep Mayo and Holliday in there full time in 2024 and the O's don't even make the playoffs.  Same with Cowser last season.  Mayo will get his shot again next season.  

[Can_of_corn]

I'm pretty annoyed they wasted the Burnes year.

They wasted a year of Adley.

They wasted a year of Gunnar.

They traded off a lot of the farm surplus.

[baltfan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

It's pretty clear that how the Orioles develop hitters does not work at the major league level. Major league pitchers don't make as many mistakes. Every talented hitter than has come up has struggled at first, until they were able to make the major league adjustments. Maybe teach guys to be effective right of the bat?

The entire systems hitting philosophy needs to be changed top to bottom.

They also have somehow taken guys who supposedly had amazing bat to ball skills on Cowser and Holliday and made them into guys that have tons of swing and miss. We don’t need everyone to hit 25 homers.  We need a mix of skills.  The one hope I have is that Gunnar in an offseason learned to hit breaking pitches and lefties.  Hopefully others will develop similarly.  And Elias needs to take some heat for missing Merrill and Wood who both were in his own backyard. You can’t miss guys like that.  The Braves don’t miss Georgia guys. 

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, EddeeEddee said:

Urias is not standing in anyone's way.  Mayo got his chances and failed as hard as anyone can fail.  You keep Mayo and Holliday in there full time in 2024 and the O's don't even make the playoffs.  Same with Cowser last season.  Mayo will get his shot again next season.  

Where does Urias play if westburg and Holliday are playing?  Do you trust Hyde to keep him on the bench?

Edited 18 hours ago by baltfan