After Two Weeks of Pie...

[df1570]

The centerfield wall at Fenway Park has been listed as "doubtful" for the rest of the game after Felix Pie collided with it earlier today.

I wrote about Pie's troubles today at www.wnst.net -- you can check it out there and react accordingly.

I jokingly compared him to David Newhan in that piece.

It might not be such a bad comparison.

As an aside, as I sit here and watch this sweep-about-to-happen, Pie just struck out.

When it rains...

[JTrea81]

The centerfield wall at Fenway Park has been listed as "doubtful" for the rest of the game after Felix Pie collided with it earlier today.

Brillliant! :rofl:

[ejf1025]

Patterson had one outstanding year in 2006. It turns out it was an outlier.

http://www.forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1689929&postcount=140

Doesn't this post show him being a leader over 3 years?

If you're going to tell me that 2006 was such a dramatic outlier, I'm going to be pretty skeptical.

I'm all for statistical analysis and admit my ignorance on the defensive analytics, but I find it hard to believe that someone (especially in the OF) can have one tremendous season while performing miserably otherwise--I'd really have to question the source.

[JTrea81]

http://www.forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1689929&postcount=140

Doesn't this post show him being a leader over 3 years?

If you're going to tell me that 2006 was such a dramatic outlier, I'm going to be pretty skeptical.

I'm all for statistical analysis and admit my ignorance on the defensive analytics, but I find it hard to believe that someone (especially in the OF) can have one tremendous season while performing miserably otherwise--I'd really have to question the source.

He had a +34 rating in 2006. That is going to skew those #'s quite hard. It means he was only a +3 combined in 2007 and 2008.

[Tx Oriole]

Maybe if he takes a time machine back to when he was 22, but Jones is a year younger than Pie and so much more advanced.

At this point, Pie's ceiling looks to be Corey Patterson, and he may not even reach that...

But, if he has a chance to paly. Why can't he becoem a good LF and a good player? I jsut don't understand why some are so down on Pie. It does not make sense to me. Can you give me a very good thought out reason why you beleive he will enver make a good LF? Or why he won't become a good player? Better than Patterson? Trea, I would really like to know.

[ejf1025]

He had a +34 rating in 2006. That is going to skew those #'s quite hard.

Right...and what I'm saying is I take your numbers (defensive analytics being a very inexact science) with a grain of salt.

It's almost inconceivable to me that someone could have a "defensive outlier" of that magnitude--that in one season he could be one of the best OFers in the league while otherwise being considered below average.

[TyCobb]

Why not? Are so sure? Or how can you be so sure?

Jones was much better in the field and at the plate. Oh and he was 22 last year. Pie is 24 this year and has showed me nothing at the plate or the field that says he can be our regular LFer. I think in a month or two he will be our 4th OFer with Reimold given the chance to win the job.

[Lester Freamon]

The next time I see one of you fools compare Pie to Jones I am going to throw up. Pie can not field LF or CF. AM needs to wake up an understand he made a mistake twice.

Even if it turns out that Pie cannot make it at the ML level, I would not consider the trade a mistake. It was a good trade, sometimes they just don't work out. Felix Pie was a good risk to take and giving up Garrett Olson to do so, IMHO, is worth it.

There just hasn't been enough time to fully evaluate Pie yet.

[J.D.]

Jones was much better in the field and at the plate. Oh and he was 22 last year. Pie is 24 this year and has showed me nothing at the plate or the field that says he can be our regular LFer. I think in a month or two he will be our 4th OFer with Reimold given the chance to win the job.

And if Reimold struggles in his first three weeks up both at the plate and in left, I hope you and Trea are at least consistent. I hope you guys are, at that point, ready to call Reimold a bust and ready to look for someone else to play left field.

I also hope that, at some point, you are ready to give a young player more than three weeks to prove themselves.

[ejf1025]

He had a +34 rating in 2006. That is going to skew those #'s quite hard. It means he was only a +3 combined in 2007 and 2008.

Also...how does the math work in this graph?

It says he has a +37 over 3 years...is that an average of '06, '07 and '08?

How did his total over those 3 years exceed that +34 rating that's skewing the numbers?

[Mackus]

The next time I see one of you fools compare Pie to Jones I am going to throw up. Pie can not field LF or CF. AM needs to wake up an understand he made a mistake twice.

This is nonsense.

The trade wasn't a mistake, and if you can't see the similarities between Pie and Jones, you aren't looking.

Nobody has said Pie will be as good as or is better than Jones. Just that they've had similar minor league numbers, Pie's even better sometimes, but obviously Pie has been older so that tempers his ceiling a bit.

Pie deserves every chance. People just need to shut up and watch him play. Judging him after a couple games, good or bad, is worthless. Give him a couple months and then evaluate him then. If he's doing what you want to see, give him more time. If he's not, make a change.

[BirdMan]

Even if it turns out that Pie cannot make it at the ML level, I would not consider the trade a mistake. It was a good trade, sometimes they just don't work out. Felix Pie was a good risk to take and giving up Garrett Olson to do so, IMHO, is worth it.

There just hasn't been enough time to fully evaluate Pie yet.

The trade was not a mistake. It was worth the chance. The problem is we are now making it a mistake. He is holding two players back that could benefit from the major league experience. Both players are better than him.

[JTrea81]

But, if he has a chance to paly. Why can't he becoem a good LF and a good player? I jsut don't understand why some are so down on Pie. It does not make sense to me. Can you give me a very good thought out reason why you beleive he will enver make a good LF? Or why he won't become a good player? Better than Patterson? Trea, I would really like to know.

I think he honestly peaked in 2007. Since 2007 even at the AAA level he hasn't been that great. Some prospects fizzle out, Larry Bigbie for example.

The point is, while Pie has been declining, Reimold and Montanez have been getting better, and Pie should not be blocking players that are earning their chance. Pie has less of a future with the Orioles than Reimold and Montanez IMO, even though they are both older. And this season should be about determining the future. Reimold and Montanez need to be up on this team getting ABs. Their future is now.

[Mackus]

The trade was not a mistake. It was worth the chance. The problem is we are now making it a mistake. He is holding two players back that could benefit from the major league experience. Both players are better than him.

Neither player deserves the opportunity first over Pie.

Montanez is filler. He's nothing better than a 4th OF.

Reimold will get his chance if Pie falters. If we decide in June or July that Pie isn't going to be an answer for us, Reimold gets the remainder of the season.

Montanez should be up as a bench player, but shouldn't be handed the same type of opportunity.

[J.D.]

The trade was not a mistake. It was worth the chance. The problem is we are now making it a mistake. He is holding two players back that could benefit from the major league experience. Both players are better than him.

We're making a mistake by giving him longer than 3 weeks to prove himself and develop at the major league level?

That's ridiculous.