Givens to be decided within the next 48 hours

[Khaezh12]

I used to be all about this kid, but this "Micheal Crabtree-esque" attitude has really thrown me off. I'm now on the fence about whether signing him or not is such a good idea, since he clearly doesn't deserve the 1st round money he's asking for at this point (or else he would've been picked there).

[wickedwitch]

I've always liked this pick, so I'll be quite disappointed if he doesn't sign. But these things happen.

[Hutman]

To quote Ozzie Newsome "right player, right price" if Givens wants to accept what the O's are offering then welcome aboard, if not then good luck at Okla. State and we will take the pick next year and take it as a kid who thinks he's worth more then what JJ thinks he's worth. Its obvious that the O's have stepped up when they have needed to.

[crawdad]

I've always liked this pick, so I'll be quite disappointed if he doesn't sign. But these things happen.

Seems like a black mark to me if he doesn't sign. There really are few excuses to put oneself in a position like this.

That said, people make mistakes and Jordan has done far more good than what looks like is happening with Givens.

[LookinUp]

I see the red flags, but if Givens does come to terms I'll 1.) assume they're reasonable, since Jordan seems like he holds pretty firm on things and 2.) be very happy that we've just added a high ceiling SS to our MiL system.

I wish we REALLY knew how signing this guy would affect our signing of other low-round guys and/or Sano.

[sector7g]

Seems like a black mark to me if he doesn't sign. There really are few excuses to put oneself in a position like this.

That said, people make mistakes and Jordan has done far more good than what looks like is happening with Givens.

Jordan has come out and said that he did his due dilligence but Givens changed his asking price after the draft. Hard to pin that one on Jordan.

[allstar1579]

Seems like a black mark to me if he doesn't sign. There really are few excuses to put oneself in a position like this.

That said, people make mistakes and Jordan has done far more good than what looks like is happening with Givens.

Yeah I keep pondering this point since the draft. On the one hand, if they knew he was going to be a really tough sign, and they thought they'd stick to their guns, take the extra money and sign later guys above slot while taking the extra pick next year...that's one thing. If they took him thinking they had a good shot at signing him for a certain amount and couldn't get it done, then you missed out on some "name" guys that we have talked about this year ad nauseam. Not that I think a FO guy would take a pick knowing they wouldn't sign him and reallocate the money on purpose, but I think that they could have been ok with that scenario playing out.

I just thought going into the draft that Givens was going to be one of the 5 toughest signs in the draft, so it struck me a bit funny that they took him. The other guys I had pegged as tough/no signs still haven't signed and don't really look like they will.

[allstar1579]

Jordan has come out and said that he did his due dilligence but Givens changed his asking price after the draft. Hard to pin that one on Jordan.

Yeah, but there was a lot of speculation before the draft that he would do something like that. That's what people are talking about when they call someone a "tough sign". Those hard signs aren't guys that throw out a set price and say this is what I need. The tough ones will try to negotiate up and up almost trying to extort more money because they have leverage of not playing for you and having other options.

[crawdad]

Jordan has come out and said that he did his due dilligence but Givens changed his asking price after the draft. Hard to pin that one on Jordan.

And Givens expressed shock that the Orioles were ever interested. I mean, it is a bad mark on Jordan to select a guy in the second round who is now unsignable. Jordan has done plenty good, but I really cannot see how to explain away this mistake.

If the guy is the one you want, you better be sure about it and secure that talent. By selecting someone he obviously did not have enough information about, he punts this year when several good 2nd round talents were available.

[crawdad]

Yeah I keep pondering this point since the draft. On the one hand, if they knew he was going to be a really tough sign, and they thought they'd stick to their guns, take the extra money and sign later guys above slot while taking the extra pick next year...that's one thing. If they took him thinking they had a good shot at signing him for a certain amount and couldn't get it done, then you missed out on some "name" guys that we have talked about this year ad nauseam. Not that I think a FO guy would take a pick knowing they wouldn't sign him and reallocate the money on purpose, but I think that they could have been ok with that scenario playing out.

I just thought going into the draft that Givens was going to be one of the 5 toughest signs in the draft, so it struck me a bit funny that they took him. The other guys I had pegged as tough/no signs still haven't signed and don't really look like they will.

Right, it seemed pretty clear to me that Givens thought awfully high of himself.

But, if they drafted him to gamble with the pick with the backup being punting it to next year . . . I think that is an incredibly poorly thought out idea on Jordan's part. I doubt he would do that. I think he thought he could sign the guy.

[allstar1579]

Right, it seemed pretty clear to me that Givens thought awfully high of himself.

But, if they drafted him to gamble with the pick with the backup being punting it to next year . . . I think that is an incredibly poorly thought out idea on Jordan's part. I doubt he would do that. I think he thought he could sign the guy.

Right. See, your last two posts are exactly what I mean, reading between the lines it almost seems like they took the pick knowing that they could either sign a real tough sign and get a good talent, or have the extra money to sign some guys above slot later on and still get that 2nd round pick next year without caring which. I seriously doubt he'd do something like that on purpose, but the whole situation seemed so odd to me.

[crawdad]

Right. See, your last two posts are exactly what I mean, reading between the lines it almost seems like they took the pick knowing that they could either sign a real tough sign and get a good talent, or have the extra money to sign some guys above slot later on and still get that 2nd round pick next year without caring which. I seriously doubt he'd do something like that on purpose, but the whole situation seemed so odd to me.

Yeah, I just find it to be a bad move. If you want to sign some overslots later . . . get yourself a slot or below slot guy at the 2nd round position. Signing someone like Kipnis or Hale or Paulsen would have been the way to go about it. Instead, you waste a year of developmental time in a system that is not exceptionally deep in talent.

[allstar1579]

Yeah, I just find it to be a bad move. If you want to sign some overslots later . . . get yourself a slot or below slot guy at the 2nd round position. Signing someone like Kipnis or Hale or Paulsen would have been the way to go about it. Instead, you waste a year of developmental time in a system that is not exceptionally deep in talent.

True that. I guess that's why I was thinking Mendonca a round early here because you could sign him below slot and still have that money to pay above slot for the other 3 kids we signed this week.

Who knows...hindsight is 20/20, and honestly I'm WAY more excited about next year's crop of HS position guys anyway.

[crawdad]

True that. I guess that's why I was thinking Mendonca a round early here because you could sign him below slot and still have that money to pay above slot for the other 3 kids we signed this week.

Who knows...hindsight is 20/20, and honestly I'm WAY more excited about next year's crop of HS position guys anyway.

Hindsight is 20/20, but both of us were surprised when it immediately happened and questioned the pick. I took solace in that Jordan knows what he is doing and will get the signature. That is just too high leverage of a pick to mess up on.

Next year's group does look better at the moment. I still think there were good gets at the slot this year.

[allstar1579]

Hindsight is 20/20, but both of us were surprised when it immediately happened and questioned the pick. I took solace in that Jordan knows what he is doing and will get the signature. That is just too high leverage of a pick to mess up on.

Next year's group does look better at the moment. I still think there were good gets at the slot this year.

I know what you mean. There were a few head-scratchers for me, that one was one of the biggest, but I like JJ and I trusted in the end he knows what he's doing. After seeing some of the HS kids this weekend in the UA game, I'd much rather get one of them in that slot over Givens any day of the week. Now which ones end up dropping to the 2nd round, I have no clue, but I'd still take it

Stotle and I were talking about some of the kids the other day, I DVR'ed it so I've been rewatching and seeing a lot that I like so far. I have to admit though, seeing Keith Law sitting behind the plate with his notes and headphones doing interviews was pretty funny looking. It's like, when exactly are you getting too big to do this stuff? But he and Calis were both so excited about being there that it just cracked me up.