Do you trust AM

[LookinUp]

Am I missing something? Didn't SG say that we don't know if AM will make the investments necessary, not that he flat out wouldn't?

If he truly believes that he doesn't know, isn't that reasonable based on AM's history?

[Sports Guy]

Am I missing something? Didn't SG say that we don't know if AM will make the investments necessary, not that he flat out wouldn't?

If he truly believes that he doesn't know, isn't that reasonable based on AM's history?

No, you aren't..but considering the people arguing with me..El Gordo and Rshack...That gives you your answer...neither you nor myself are the ones "missing something".

[DrungoHazewood]

We could have made great progress last year with the good free agents on the market. No you can't get there this year but you could make a lot of progress. How about Sano and Chapman. There are also some free agents available this year who could help.

The real question here is do you believe Angelos is running the Orioles to make money with winning secondary. Do you? The facts say he is. A lot of behavior over the years says he is. The point, if the Orioles are run this way we will never be competitive under Angelos. Angelos has a fantastic stadium deal. It implicitly assumes Angelos will invest this money in a winner. If not lets raise his taxes.

Doesn't it bother you that Angelos earnings are so extreme, and he's totally getting away with it?

I think every owner runs the team to make money. They'd rather win than lose, but they pour money into the team only when they think there's a good chance that money will make their fans give them even more.

If Angelos was only in it for "extreme earnings" why did were his teams constantly at the bottom of MLB in wins per dollar spent in the 1998-2007 timeframe? Why sign Markakis and Roberts to extensions? Why not do like the Pirates and pass over Wieters for someone with lesser bonus demands?

Angelos is no different from any other owner, except that for a long time he was quite bad at picking people to run his team.

[amateurfan]

Even if you're right, and $120M is sustainable over the long term, it's irrelevant to today. It makes no sense for a 64-win team with tons of young talent to jack up payroll $50M, $60M, $70M in one offseason. Especially one offseason with so little free agent talent that fit the Orioles' needs, or if that talent won't come to Baltimore without tacking on an ill-advised bad team premium.

$120M doesn't matter and doesn't make sense if it's not done right.

I agree. I think the Orioles can invest $30 million this off season, though, and it would help in the short and long term.

[RShack]

Am I missing something? Didn't SG say that we don't know if AM will make the investments necessary, not that he flat out wouldn't?

If he truly believes that he doesn't know, isn't that reasonable based on AM's history?

I took SG's comment to indicate that AM has some ingrained belief against spending big to bring in a bat from the outside. I based this on his comment that success requires AM to do something that AM does not want to do. SG said that, not me. Now, everybody agrees that it remains to be seen whether AM will do that. I was trying to clarify exactly what beliefs SG thinks AM has that contradict what AM has said he's gonna do. Since SG refuses to answer a simple question that is also a perfectly fair question, I don't know what to conclude about SG's views, excepty that he's taking pot shots at AM again for not being as smart as SG thinks SG is ;-)

[amateurfan]

I think every owner runs the team to make money. They'd rather win than lose, but they pour money into the team only when they think there's a good chance that money will make their fans give them even more.

If Angelos was only in it for "extreme earnings" why did were his teams constantly at the bottom of MLB in wins per dollar spent in the 1998-2007 timeframe? Why sign Markakis and Roberts to extensions? Why not do like the Pirates and pass over Wieters for someone with lesser bonus demands?

Angelos is no different from any other owner, except that for a long time he was quite bad at picking people to run his team.

I agree with this. In the past, Angelos did spend money. He increased salary pretty drastically in 2004 after a low. He's not always spent money well.

What I wonder about now is if the minority owners want a greater return. Not that I'd have any idea.

[Wind Rider]

I think every owner runs the team to make money. They'd rather win than lose, but they pour money into the team only when they think there's a good chance that money will make their fans give them even more.

If Angelos was only in it for "extreme earnings" why did were his teams constantly at the bottom of MLB in wins per dollar spent in the 1998-2007 timeframe? Why sign Markakis and Roberts to extensions? Why not do like the Pirates and pass over Wieters for someone with lesser bonus demands?

Angelos is no different from any other owner, except that for a long time he was quite bad at picking people to run his team.

I think he is zeroing in on an equilibrium position where he spends some, gives an appearance of trying to win but makes extreme earnings.

As for the Markakis, Roberts ,Wieters spending it sounds good but you have to look at the bottom line. From 2000 to 2009 25 clubs raised their salary an average of 94%, only two lowered theirs a lot, San Deigo at 20%, the Orioles 19%. Next year it will have been lowered by 40%. Markakis, Roberts, and Wieters makes a nice smokescreen to hide what he is really doing.

Yes they all want to make money but that is an oversimplification. Most are content with more modest earnings and a much better shot at winning. We are after all looking at our 13th straight losing season.

Its one thing to make money, it another to have earnings so extreme you are basically raping the city. Next year his earnings will border on twice as high as the highest ever since 1990. His stadium and tax deals are based on the assumption he will spend to produce a winner.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Angelos promise to spend what it took to win when he bought the club. I believe he even offered to open his books.

[Wind Rider]

I agree with this. In the past, Angelos did spend money. He increased salary pretty drastically in 2004 after a low. He's not always spent money well.

What I wonder about now is if the minority owners want a greater return. Not that I'd have any idea.

In 2004 Angelos had the highest earnings in all baseball.

[VTmook213]

I think he is zeroing in on an equilibrium position where he spends some, gives an appearance of trying to win but makes extreme earnings.

As for the Markakis, Roberts ,Wieters spending it sounds good but you have to look at the bottom line. From 2000 to 2009 25 clubs raised their salary an average of 94%, only two lowered theirs a lot, San Deigo at 20%, the Orioles 19%. Next year it will have been lowered by 40%. Markakis, Roberts, and Wieters makes a nice smokescreen to hide what he is really doing.

Yes they all want to make money but that is an oversimplification. Most are content with more modest earnings and a much better shot at winning. We are after all looking at our 13th straight losing season.

Its one thing to make money, it another to have earnings so extreme you are basically raping the city. Next year his earnings will border on twice as high as the highest ever since 1990. His stadium and tax deals are based on the assumption he will spend to produce a winner.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Angelos promise to spend what it took to win when he bought the club. I believe he even offered to open his books.

You do realize that owning a sports franchise, despite what many fans would like to think, is a business? Name business owners that like to run at a loss, year after year:

Nothing?

And saying he refuses to spend money is silly - since taking over the team in '93, the Orioles have been top 5 in payroll 5 times, top 10 8 times, and top half of the league in payroll 12 times.

He may not have spent that money well, but it's not like we're operating with a bargain basement team every year here like other teams in MLB are doing.

[Wind Rider]

You do realize that owning a sports franchise, despite what many fans would like to think, is a business? Name business owners that like to run at a loss, year after year:

Nothing?

And saying he refuses to spend money is silly - since taking over the team in '93, the Orioles have been top 5 in payroll 5 times, top 10 8 times, and top half of the league in payroll 12 times.

He may not have spent that money well, but it's not like we're operating with a bargain basement team every year here like other teams in MLB are doing.

Since 2002 his payroll has been such that he has the third highest income in all baseball. Clearly he had plenty more money available for payroll. He is a large market team operating like a small one. From 2002 to 2008 five teams totaled negative earnings. Some owners really want to win.

Silly? Next year we're looking at a payroll of 50 million and all time huge earnings of 70 million. I'd say thats a great argument for his not spending. Look at all the decisions over the last eight years where we didn't spend the necessary money, where Angelos said no. He had the money, he didn't spend.

Haven't checked the other years but in 2009 the Orioles payroll was 23rd out of 30

[Wind Rider]

You do realize that owning a sports franchise, despite what many fans would like to think, is a business? Name business owners that like to run at a loss, year after year:

Nothing?

And saying he refuses to spend money is silly - since taking over the team in '93, the Orioles have been top 5 in payroll 5 times, top 10 8 times, and top half of the league in payroll 12 times.

He may not have spent that money well, but it's not like we're operating with a bargain basement team every year here like other teams in MLB are doing.

The Orioles Salary rank

year rank

2009 23

2008 22

2007 10

2006 15

2005 14

2004 20

2003 13

2002 16

I'd say salary ranks like this compared with the third highest income over the period shows he could have spent a lot more money.

[VTmook213]

Since 2002 his payroll has been such that he has the third highest income in all baseball. Clearly he had plenty more money available for payroll. He is a large market team operating like a small one. From 2002 to 2008 five teams totaled negative earnings. Some owners really want to win.

Silly? Next year we're looking at a payroll of 50 million and all time huge earnings of 70 million. I'd say thats a great argument for his not spending. Look at all the decisions over the last eight years where we didn't spend the necessary money, where Angelos said no. He had the money, he didn't spend.

Haven't checked the other years but in 2009 the Orioles payroll was 23rd out of 30

Most teams, in a rebuilding phase, have lower payrolls. You can continue to push your anti-Angelos agenda, or you could recognize that younger players have smaller contracts. Teams that rebuild have younger players. Younger players have small contracts. Therefore, teams that are rebuilding have small payrolls.

Blame Angelos all you want for his pre-AM meddling in baseball operations. But at least give him credit for keeping clear of the proceedings since AM has signed on. In the same manner, rail all you want about how the Orioles are going to have a small payroll next year, but also recognize that Angelos has spent over the course of his ownership.

[Lucky Jim]

The Orioles Salary rank

year rank

2009 23

2008 22

2007 10

2006 15

2005 14

2004 20

2003 13

2002 16

I'd say salary ranks like this compared with the third highest income over the period shows he could have spent a lot more money.

That looks uncommonly like a mid-market team going through a second re-building phase.

[JTrea81]

Most teams, in a rebuilding phase, have lower payrolls. You can continue to push your anti-Angelos agenda, or you could recognize that younger players have smaller contracts. Teams that rebuild have younger players. Younger players have small contracts. Therefore, teams that are rebuilding have small payrolls.

Blame Angelos all you want for his pre-AM meddling in baseball operations. But at least give him credit for keeping clear of the proceedings since AM has signed on. In the same manner, rail all you want about how the Orioles are going to have a small payroll next year, but also recognize that Angelos has spent over the course of his ownership.

The Orioles could have chose to spend money last year to acquire guys like Wolf for instance but chose to take the cheap route out and went after Eaton.

They could have also offered more for Teixeira initially.

More money could have been spent to make the Orioles more respectable but yet also could have provided future pieces to compete with. Instead they chose to throw away 2009 like they threw away 2008.

[Wind Rider]

That looks uncommonly like a mid-market team going through a second re-building phase.

Not when he's got the third highest income in baseball over the period.