Orioles Lineup with Derrek Lee

[Shopay]

It's understandable that folks who don't really get baseball would think a team could overcome 13 years of losing by signing a bunch of free agents, spending half a $billion, and trading away everything for a one-off shot at 2011.

Bingo. :clap3:

[JTrea81]

It's understandable that folks who don't really get baseball would think a team could overcome 13 years of losing by signing a bunch of free agents, spending half a $billion, and trading away everything for a one-off shot at 2011.

If you would actually read what I posted you'd see that I don't want to do any of that to give the Orioles a shot.

Sign one more bat - that's it.

[LookinUp]

I don't love either Pie or Reimold in LF, so I don't absolutely hate the Thome idea. It does beg the question of how Pie and Reimold get ABs, but that's not a bad problem to have, especially considering one could easily end up in AAA.

[larrytt]

Unless the O's do more than add some bullpen help, it will take a huge season from Markakis, Wieters and Jones to put the Orioles in the playoffs even if the pitching comes around.

If they do more however maybe only one or two of those players has to break out for that to happen.

What they've done is quite an improvement this is true. But nobody should be patting MacPhail on the back yet, because there is still more they can do to actually have a shot at the playoffs this year as there are still several question marks in that lineup.

After 13 losing seasons, there's no harm in wanting more as a fan...

I'm fighting the urge to point out that you've said essentially these exact same things in roughly 463,563,592 posts, that you seem to believe that the O's can sign anyone they want to sign regardless of the fact that these free agents have very good reasons to not sign with the O's, that the O's have a more limited budget than certain AL East rivals (and need to use much of it to develop talent, rather than spend it all for one season, followed by 13 more losing seasons), and that the O's are among the most improved teams in baseball this off season. (Oops, the urge was too strong.)

Saying things like "there's no harm in wanting more as a fan" is correct, but don't take it out on the rest of us by hijacking thread after thread with your mantra. This thread is titled "Orioles Lineup with Derrek Lee," not "Why JTrea81 thinks we're not good enough." Why not start that thread yourself, and debate it there with those who want to debate this with you for the 463,563,593rd time?

We want more too, but what we want and actual reality (i.e. what the O's management faces) have a way of clashing with each other. Guess what? With all the improvement with the team, we're now in excellent position to sign for 2012 the very free agents you argue for. Also, you seem to have read all of my posting except the part about pessimists taking the rest of the year (and next year?) off.

Now can we get the thread back on the projected lineup for next year, and the utter havoc it will leave in its wake as it devastates the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays pitching staffs?

[JTrea81]

I don't love either Pie or Reimold in LF, so I don't absolutely hate the Thome idea. It does beg the question of how Pie and Reimold get ABs, but that's not a bad problem to have, especially considering one could easily end up in AAA.

Winning teams don't give those players ABs at the ML level unless they absolutely have to.

[Chrisparadis]

That's fine but competitive is 90 wins or better in the AL East.

Say our pitching staff gets us to that 90 wins. Wouldn't you have liked to have upgraded just a little bit more to see if we could have been a playoff team?

That's what I'm talking about. If the Orioles just add one more bat in addition to Lee, they'd have at least some potential of being in the playoffs instead of just an above .500 team.

I agree totally ... I say trade Pie get rid of him he has been here long enough and bring in a good SP , and then offer a nice can not refuse contract to either Vlad or Thome and have them DH and have Luke in LF... Now we are talking ...

[Shopay]

I'm fighting the urge to point out that you've said essentially these exact same things in roughly 463,563,592 posts, that you seem to believe that the O's can sign anyone they want to sign regardless of the fact that these free agents have very good reasons to not sign with the O's, that the O's have a more limited budget than certain AL East rivals (and need to use much of it to develop talent, rather than spend it all for one season, followed by 13 more losing seasons), and that the O's are among the most improved teams in baseball this off season. (Oops, the urge was too strong.)

Saying things like "there's no harm in wanting more as a fan" is correct, but don't take it out on the rest of us by hijacking thread after thread with your mantra. This thread is titled "Orioles Lineup with Derrek Lee," not "Why JTrea81 thinks we're not good enough." Why not start that thread yourself, and debate it there with those who want to debate this with you for the 463,563,593rd time?

We want more too, but what we want and actual reality (i.e. what the O's management faces) have a way of clashing with each other. Guess what? With all the improvement with the team, we're now in excellent position to sign for 2012 the very free agents you argue for. Also, you seem to have read all of my posting except the part about pessimists taking the rest of the year (and next year?) off.

Now can we get the thread back on the projected lineup for next year, and the utter havoc it will leave in its wake as it devastates the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays pitching staffs?

Better yet, why not keep the bolded discussions on your own message board Trea? You can hijack as many threads as you want over there.

[JTrea81]

I'm fighting the urge to point out that you've said essentially these exact same things in roughly 463,563,592 posts, that you seem to believe that the O's can sign anyone they want to sign regardless of the fact that these free agents have very good reasons to not sign with the O's, that the O's have a more limited budget than certain AL East rivals (and need to use much of it to develop talent, rather than spend it all for one season, followed by 13 more losing seasons), and that the O's are among the most improved teams in baseball this off season. (Oops, the urge was too strong.)

Saying things like "there's no harm in wanting more as a fan" is correct, but don't take it out on the rest of us by hijacking thread after thread with your mantra. This thread is titled "Orioles Lineup with Derrek Lee," not "Why JTrea81 thinks we're not good enough." Why not start that thread yourself, and debate it there with those who want to debate this with you for the 463,563,593rd time?

We want more too, but what we want and actual reality (i.e. what the O's management faces) have a way of clashing with each other. Guess what? With all the improvement with the team, we're now in excellent position to sign for 2012 the very free agents you argue for. Also, you seem to have read all of my posting except the part about pessimists taking the rest of the year (and next year?) off.

Now can we get the thread back on the projected lineup for next year, and the utter havoc it will leave in its wake as it devastates the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays pitching staffs?

I'm sorry but I just get really annoyed when people jump up and down like we won the WS when we sign a 1B man to make us respectable - not competitive but respectable.

We've got to demand more as fans, we really do. But I'll leave it at that and let you folks carry on...

[backwardsk]

I'm sorry but I just get really annoyed when people jump up and down like we won the WS when we sign a 1B man to make us respectable - not competitive but respectable.

We've got to demand more as fans, we really do. But I'll leave it at that and let you folks carry on...

Like Chone Figgins and multi-year deals to Jamie Moyer.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm sorry but I just get really annoyed when people jump up and down like we won the WS when we sign a 1B man to make us respectable - not competitive but respectable.

We've got to demand more as fans, we really do. But I'll leave it at that and let you folks carry on...

Would you hate the Lee signing this much if he wasn't an ex-Cub and therefore one of "MacPhail's guys"?

As pointed out, it's hard to argue for someone who is 5 years older than Lee in Jim Thome (though I'd love to see him, too.)

[AgentOrange]

I'm sorry but I just get really annoyed when people jump up and down like we won the WS when we sign a 1B man to make us respectable - not competitive but respectable.

We've got to demand more as fans, we really do. But I'll leave it at that and let you folks carry on...

That's your problem. We DO expect more as fans! You really need to listen to Baltimore sports talk on the Ravens season to see how Baltimore expects more.

Just because we are happy with moves that have been made means we have a low standard for our team? Get real.

Just enjoy some things for a minute. You will live a happier life.

[crawjo]

If we're doing a lineup with Lee in it this is what I propose:

2B Roberts

RF Markakis

1B Lee

DH Thome

CF Jones

LF Scott

3B Reynolds

C Wieters

SS Hardy

Now that team has a shot at the playoffs on Opening Day if everything breaks right. It is an 86 win team on paper with a potential of 90+ if people overachieve.

I'm not talking a huge commitment to a slugger by trading away half our farm system - rather just one more bat.

You get rid of a weak link in Pie and Reimold and push that to the bench where you can afford less production.

You are completely delusional if you think the Orioles are now one 40-year-old bat away from being a contender. Thome is almost to the point now of being a part-time player. Last year he was good for all of 340 PA. He's highly unlikely to repeat that 178 OPS+, 3.5 WAR season he put up for the Twins in 2010.

The only way this team competes for a pennant next season is if Wieters and Jones both take major steps forward (and by major I mean All Star level, 900 OPS type seasons), and the pitching rotation stays healthy and outperforms its peripherals, or there is sudden and significant improvement from guys like Arrieta and Tillman.

[Brotha J]

I think we'll see this lineup against RHSP

BRob 9 HR

Nick 23 HR

Lee 27 HR

Scott 30 HR

Reynolds 38 HR

Wieters 17 HR

Jones 25 HR

Pie 15 HR

Hardy 18 HR

Against LHSP

BRob

Nick

Lee

Reynolds

Scott

Jones

Wieters

Reimold 18 HR

Hardy

:laughlol::smile11::boogie::2yay-thumb::beerchug1:

This is how I would project the lineup as well.

[larrytt]

I'm sorry but I just get really annoyed when people jump up and down like we won the WS when we sign a 1B man to make us respectable - not competitive but respectable.

We've got to demand more as fans, we really do. But I'll leave it at that and let you folks carry on...

You do not comprehend that in going from last place to playoffs, a team has to go through a number of steps, and the O's have done far more of these steps than expected. You just don't see that improving is a process, not an instant jump, no matter how much you want instant gratification. You expect the O's to sign players who don't want to come here and to outbid teams with more money. A better analysis is to bring to the O's to "respectability" (as you admit we've done), and THEN we can sign these top players for 2012.

If all a team has to do to make the playoffs year after year is follow your policy of signing the needed players, all 30 teams would be in the playoffs. But guess what? It doesn't work that way. It's easy to tell them to break the bank for one player, but then we're stuck with that contract, and less money for other contracts and player development. It's easy to ridicule the O's for not signing players when the players do not want to sign with us. But are these attitudes logical?

I too hope the O's can sign another big bat. But I have the common sense to realize that it's up to the big bat to agree to sign with the O's, and they have huge incentive to NOT sign with us. You are angry at the O's management because they are, essentially, in a hundred yard dash with other teams where we spot the other teams ten yards, and of course keep losing. Is it smarter to keep running that hundred yard dash with a handicap and keep losing, or to work to remove the handicap, i.e. make the O's "respectable" so we have an even field?

I'm guessing your answer to remove the handicap is to sign a top player - which is circular reasoning. It's the handicap that keeps us from signing most top players, unless we do indeed break the bank. I think the O's have a better answer - they are rapidly removing that handicap, and soon will have a more level field when it comes to going after free agents.

There very likely will be a time to break the bank. Check the free agent listing for 2012, including a certain first baseman you covet. The moves the O's have made this off season have sweetened the pot for when the time comes to talk to him.

So I'm sorry you are annoyed that you believe people are jumping up and down "like we won the WS." Actually, they are jumping up and down because we just greatly improved the team for 2011, and increased our chances for even more improvement for 2012. Suddenly there is light at the end of this 13-year losing tunnel. Given this improvement, how can any real Orioles fan be annoyed right now?

Take the rest of the year off from your pessimistic postings. (C'mon, it's only a little over six hours!) And if you are still annoyed, seriously consider taking the next year off as well.

[Shopay]

Would you hate the Lee signing this much if he wasn't an ex-Cub and therefore one of "MacPhail's guys"?

As pointed out, it's hard to argue for someone who is 5 years older than Lee in Jim Thome (though I'd love to see him, too.)

Moose: The bottom line is Trea is miserable whenever AM does something that most of the fans like because it takes away from his "must bash AM at every turn" platform. Instead of joining the rest of the fans in enjoying a decent sigining and good off season by AM, he trys to derail all the positive threads with his continual AM bashing. There's a time to bash AM but now is not the time to do it. He should keep his negative energy on his own website today.