Orioles Lineup with Derrek Lee

[JTrea81]

Was that consistent across the whole season?

No idea as the splits don't get broken out to that degree.

[Shopay]

I don't mind going after Vlad, but it is just my gut feeling that Vlad isn't going to play anywhere that doesn't have a huge Hispanic population. I don't think it hurts to try.

I have some reservations about him, though. I'd really like to see the team having a patient, team oriented approach at the plate. Vlad is the poster boy for free swinging. It's fun to watch him hitting balls that nearly bounce, or which are helmet high, or a foot outside, but that's not what I want to see the team doing in general. I don't want Adam Jones getting the wrong idea.

And, I just think Vlad is looking a little old. I have this gut feeling that he could drop off a cliff.

Even with those reservations, I can't say I wouldn't be happy if we got him.

Living in Orange County and watching Vlad for several years with Angels, I can assure that Vlad's performance last year (especially their first half) was a huge surprise to all Angel fans and their front office (this has been acknowledged). I wouldn't count on it again and your point about his free swinging not setting a good example for our young players, like Adam, is spot on.

[Shopay]

You do realize Luke Scott was one of the better defenders in LF before he was moved to DH?

When he played there full time - his UZR/150 was 8.5 in 2008.

I agree that I would want either for only a 1 year deal, but would be willing to tack on a club option as well...

And that's a prime example as to why you shouldn't rely strictly on UZR/150 to evaluate an outfielder's performance. Luke looks like he's pulling a train when he runs.

[Crazysilver03]

No idea as the splits don't get broken out to that degree.

Then I put a lot more stock into the second half numbers he posted.

[UMDTerrapins]

We don't neccessarily need young and cheap players to compete.

We need players that will help us win. You can develop players in the minors, and neither Reimold nor Pie have shown enough yet at the ML level to be depended on as a solution that will do that. And remember, these guys aren't exactly prospects.

Yes they are relatively young, though Reimold is 27 and Pie is 26, but can they help us win games next year? Are they the best option for that position that we can get?

Remember our production from LF last year? Why risk that again?

At some point you've got to decide what is more important - winning, or winning only if you can use internal talent.

Player development happens in the ML, not just in the minors. We're developing Jones, Wieters, Arrieta, Matusz, Bergesen, Tillman, Remold, Pie, Berken, VandenHurk at the ML level. And it's critical that we make the most of our organizational assets because we can't spend with the Yankees and Red Sox. We've added a good amount this offseason, but no doubt our path in the next 4+ years is dependent on the evolution of these guys. Blocking two guys with talent who have nothing left to gain in the minors so we can sign a 40 year old vet is crazy to me. LF was a mess last season for sure. Pie and Reimold were injured much of the year. It's entirely possible both of these guys don't live up to their potential in the end, but we can't afford to give up on them yet. And remember, this is a fluid process. If we're contending in July and Reimold/Pie aren't producing enough, we can make a move. Same with next offseason. But to add Guerrero is essentially to say that we've given up on these two guys and I think that's nuts.

[El Gordo]

Was that consistent across the whole season?

If he maintained that .932 OPS the second half against LH SP, he must really have struggled against RH SP to have a .748 OPs post ASB.:laughlol:

[larrytt]

Look at his #'s vs LHP: .338/.395/.536/.932

Unless the plan is to spend a fortune hiring Vlad and then sit him against righties, I think how he hits overall is what counts, not how he does against lefties. Plus, it's a small sample size of only 167 PA against lefties in 2010. (For example, in 2009, in 105 PA against lefties, he was only .250/.276/.410/.686.) Vlad is aging, and while he still can hit, we can't expect him to do better than his last two seasons, where his OPS's were .794 and .841. The current Vlad is comparable to the Reimold of 2009 (.831 OPS) - hopefully we'll learn in spring training if the 2011 Reimold is the 2009 or the 2010 version. Doesn't mean signing Vlad or Thome wouldn't help, but let's not raise our expectations on what they'll produce. The Orioles have a rather poor history in recent years of bringing in players past their peak, and predictably they don't hit like they used to. Do we really want another Sosa fiasco? Maybe we should give Reimold or Pie a chance, perhaps as a platoon. Want a list of players who had potential but didn't hit much until they'd played several seasons? Imagine giving up on Reimold, and watching him star with someone else.

[JTrea81]

Player development happens in the ML, not just in the minors. We're developing Jones, Wieters, Arrieta, Matusz, Bergesen, Tillman, Remold, Pie, Berken, VandenHurk at the ML level. And it's critical that we make the most of our organizational assets because we can't spend with the Yankees and Red Sox. We've added a good amount this offseason, but no doubt our path in the next 4+ years is dependent on the evolution of these guys. Blocking two guys with talent who have nothing left to gain in the minors so we can sign a 40 year old vet in serious decline is crazy to me. LF was a mess last season for sure. Pie and Reimold were injured much of the year. It's entirely possible both of these guys don't live up to their potential in the end, but we can't afford to give up on them yet. And remember, this is a fluid process. If we're contending in July and Reimold/Pie aren't producing enough, we can make a move. Same with next offseason. But to add Guerrero is essentially to say that we've given up on these two guys and I think that's nuts.

So you are willing to let them possibly drag the rest of the team down just to evaluate them one more year? That's what 2008-2010 was for IMO.

At some point their chances need to be up. Pie has had plenty of time to show what he was made of. He's had the LF job for 2 seasons now and forced Luke Scott to DH for playing time and he hasn't proved he can take it. Reimold showed signs, but was injured and completely fell off the table last year. There's nothing wrong with putting him in AAA again and making him earn it. He's got 1 option left to use.

The Orioles weren't afraid to block Josh Bell, so they shouldn't be afraid to block those two either. Players should now need to earn ML playing time because it's about winning games. The Orioles have enough question marks in their lineup without adding Pie or Reimold as regulars.

[Crazysilver03]

The Orioles weren't afraid to block Josh Bell, so they shouldn't be afraid to block those two either. Players should now need to earn ML playing time because it's about winning games. The Orioles have enough question marks in their lineup without adding Pie or Reimold as regulars.

Poor argument.

The Orioles didn't block Bell. They went out and got someone they planned on trading mid-season. Also of note, Bell had never played at Triple-A so he still needed to go there first, unlike Pie and Reimold.

If the Orioles kept Reimold during the Bartlett saga, then I think they want to see what he can bring to the table this season.

And I doubt that Pie/Reimold drags the team down, as you say.

[UMDTerrapins]

So you are willing to let them possibly drag the rest of the team down just to evaluate them one more year? That's what 2007-2010 was for IMO.

At some point their chances need to be up. Pie has had plenty of time to show what he was made of. He's had the LF job for 2 seasons now and forced Luke Scott to DH for playing time and he hasn't proved he can take it. Reimold showed signs, but was injured and completely fell off the table last year. There's nothing wrong with putting him in AAA again and making him earn it. He's got 1 option left to use.

The Orioles weren't afraid to block Josh Bell, so they shouldn't be afraid to block those two either. Players should now need to earn ML playing time because it's about winning games.

Pie was on the DL until July this year and only got playing time in 2009 near the end of the season after he discovered his ML swing. He hasn't had the job for 2 years. Personally, I'm not sold on him, I expect more numbers from a 5 tool guy. I'm bothered that for all his speed he doesn't steal more.

Reimold has a lot to prove too. 2010 was a lost season for injuries and other reasons. But 2009 was a lot of proof that he can hit ML pitching with authority, and even steal bases. He has to show that with a return to health he can be a consistent contributor.

Between those two, LF should be considered covered for at least the first half of 2011. It's insanely rigid to think that all player development at the ML level had to occur between 2008-2010. Jones, Wieters, Arrieta, Matusz, Bergesen, Tillman, Remold, Pie, Berken, VandenHurk are all still developing in 2011. If not we're screwed!

Josh Bell isn't a comp. He's younger and hasn't shown a thing at the plate at the ML level. He still has a lot to work on at AAA.

I'm really optimistic about 2011, but I'm not ready to pass permanent judgement on Reimold and Pie by signing a 40 year old DH. We're still growing the kids. I think it's important to accept that that process has to continue not just in 2011, but in subsequent years as well.

[JTrea81]

Poor argument.

The Orioles didn't block Bell. They went out and got someone they planned on trading mid-season. Also of note, Bell had never played at Triple-A so he still needed to go there first, unlike Pie and Reimold.

What do you call Mark Reynolds?

If the Orioles kept Reimold during the Bartlett saga, then I think they want to see what he can bring to the table this season.

And I doubt that Pie/Reimold drags the team down, as you say.

They can see what he can bring to the table in AAA, a place he struggled at last season. If he blows up, you bring him up or you trade him possibly.

As for Pie, he should be dealt before the season, perhaps in ST when teams have injuries.

And any place where the Orioles are taking a hit in production to audition a player is going to drag the team down.

[JTrea81]

Personally, I'm not sold on him

Reimold has a lot to prove too.

Between those two, LF should be considered covered for at least the first half of 2011.

Do you see what's wrong with that last statement with your previous two?

You are trying to convince yourself that two unproven options should cover LF adequately, but you said yourself you doubt them, so why even put them out there?

What are you really gaining?

[Crazysilver03]

What do you call Mark Reynolds?

They can see what he can bring to the table in AAA, a place he struggled at last season. If he blows up, you bring him up or you trade him possibly.

Josh Bell may or may not move to 1B this coming season, then he would not be blocked. Or he could come up as a DH.

[isestrex]

Josh Bell may or may not move to 1B this coming season, then he would not be blocked. Or he could come up as a DH.

Not likely... the Orioles have said several times that they are very impressed with his arm.

[UMDTerrapins]

Do you see what's wrong with that last statement with your previous two?

You are trying to convince yourself that two unproven options should cover LF adequately, but you said yourself you doubt them, so why even put them out there?

What are you really gaining?

I don't doubt Reimold can be a meaningful contributor.....I have my doubts about Pie. But those are my personal opinions.

What I don't think is opinion is that many people think both have the potential to be productive ML regulars and I'm not going to give up on them at this stage. And I like that math...we have two high upside possibilities that can lock down the position for years to come. If both fall on their faces in 2011, you change course. Locking both out of a job just makes no sense to me.

Nothing at all funny about my logic.