Texas back in on vlad ...not happy with os offer

[Carroll County]

The fact that Atkins played the field at two positions of need for us contributed to the $4.5M we gave him too. As the fact that Vlad doesn't play the field decreases his value to us.

[lovetoaster]

Is anyone else tired of hearing Atkins constantly being brought up as a comparison to every free agent negotiation?

Was it a mistake? Absolutely. Teams and GM's make mistakes all the time. Some more than others, but that is another discussion for another time.

Was that situation similar to this one? No, not at all IMO. At least Atkins played a position of need...or a position at all.

Maybe we had money in the budget to throw $4.5 in a hole last year, because that is essentially what we did. Who knows? We did not need Atkins, but we needed someone that played that position. We don't need Vlad and we don't need a DH. Would we be better with him? That is certainly debatable. But we can field a team without someone with his skillset.

Just because we vastly overpaid for a free agent last year does not mean that we can commit that same amount of money to someone this year or make another mistake by overpaying someone else or bidding against ourselves.

[El Gordo]

Is anyone else tired of hearing Atkins constantly being brought up as a comparison to every free agent negotiation?

Was it a mistake? Absolutely. Teams and GM's make mistakes all the time. Some more than others, but that is another discussion for another time.

Was that situation similar to this one? No, not at all IMO. At least Atkins played a position of need...or a position at all.

Maybe we had money in the budget to throw $4.5 in a hole last year, because that is essentially what we did. Who knows? We did not need Atkins, but we needed someone that played that position. We don't need Vlad and we don't need a DH. Would we be better with him? That is certainly debatable. But we can field a team without someone with his skillset.

Just because we vastly overpaid for a free agent last year does not mean that we can commit that same amount of money to someone this year or make another mistake by overpaying someone else or bidding against ourselves.

The issue with Atkins was not the money, it was the evaluation of him. There were a number of teams interested in him, and he probabaly would have gotten something close to the 4.5 MM we game him from someone else.

[lovetoaster]

The issue with Atkins was not the money, it was the evaluation of him. There were a number of teams interested in him, and he probabaly would have gotten something close to the 4.5 MM we game him from someone else.

I am just saying that it was a mistake, and we certainly know that now. But we cannot compare that situation to everyone else. That logic does not usually work.

[El Gordo]

I am just saying that it was a mistake, and we certainly know that now. But we cannot compare that situation to everyone else. That logic does not usually work.

I'm not arguing with you. People seem to not be able to understand that a player's value is determined by the market for him, independent of his potential productivety. There was a market for Atkins that made him worth about 4.5 MM. The market for Vlad makes him worth around 4MM, even though he is obviously the better investment.

[Dipper9]

Drew: Rumor...only remaining issue between #Orioles and #Vlad: Birds want him to play for free, Guerrero wants money.

about 2 hours ago via web

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http://twitter.com/wnst

Normally I don't care for this kind of thing, but that right there is just funny! Well done Drew!

[lovetoaster]

I'm not arguing with you. People seem to not be able to understand that a player's value is determined by the market for him, independent of his potential productivety. There was a market for Atkins that made him worth about 4.5 MM. The market for Vlad makes him worth around 4MM, even though he is obviously the better investment.

Oh I know you are not arguing with me. Sorry, that last post was not really in response to anything you said. And I agree with what you are saying here.

I can imagine if we do not sign Evan Longoria when he becomes a free agent in 2017, people on here saying "well, we did give Atkins $4.5M in 2010."

[B T]

Looks like Blue Jays are out on Vlad. From MLBTraderumors...

The Blue Jays have money to spend now that they've unloaded most or all of Wells' deal and they remain open to making acquisitions. Anthopoulos, a Montreal native and former Expos employee, says he can relate to fans who want a bona fide slugger like Vladimir Guerrero.

"I understand," Anthopoulos said. "He was one of my favorite players growing up and he's someone that I admire."

However, Anthopoulos exaplined that he doesn't want to acquire players who get playing time in place of developing players. For example, the Blue Jays intend to provide their top catching prospect with the chance to show major league pitchers why he won the Pacific Coast League MVP last year.

“We really don’t want to get in the way of J.P. Arencibia because we do believe that he’s an important component of this team” Anthopoulos said. “He has nothing more to prove down [in the minors]. He needs to get an opportunity to play up here and we might have to let him live through some struggles early on.”

[Sports Guy]

Drew: Rumor...only remaining issue between #Orioles and #Vlad: Birds want him to play for free, Guerrero wants money.

about 2 hours ago via web

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http://twitter.com/wnst

Sports Guy: Rumor..only thing holding #WNST back from being a good station are listeners and hosts with knowledge and intelligence.

about 1 min ago via web

[lovetoaster]

Sports Guy: Rumor..only thing holding #WNST back from being a good station are viewers and hosts with knowledge and intelligence.

about 1 min ago via web

Well done sir.

[Dipper9]

Sports Guy: Rumor..only thing holding #WNST back from being a good station are listeners and hosts with knowledge and intelligence.

about 1 min ago via web

Dipper: Fact: Orioles among 30 teams vying for Vlad's services.

That's about as much good as many of these legit "reporters" give us.

[Nigel Tufnel]

If Vlad's so insulted by $3 million from the O's, I don't understand why he hasn't just accepted one of his other offers. Oh, wait - he has no other offers.

[LookinUp]

If Vlad's so insulted by $3 million from the O's, I don't understand why he hasn't just accepted one of his other offers. Oh, wait - he has no other offers.

My guess is that he's waiting for us, not the other way around.

[Frobby]

If Vlad's so insulted by $3 million from the O's, I don't understand why he hasn't just accepted one of his other offers. Oh, wait - he has no other offers.

This is not the first time that Vlad had an offer from the Orioles that he sat on, just patiently waiting for something he liked better to come along. Back in 2003, it must have been about a month between when we made our initial offer and when another team put something on the table. And then -- poof! -- he was gone. There's a pretty decent chance that history is going to repeat itself.

[Nigel Tufnel]

This is not the first time that Vlad had an offer from the Orioles that he sat on, just patiently waiting for something he liked better to come along. Back in 2003, it must have been about a month between when we made our initial offer and when another team put something on the table. And then -- poof! -- he was gone. There's a pretty decent chance that history is going to repeat itself.

Yeah, that probably is what Vlad's thinking. And it worked out for him in 2003 - he got the offer he wanted and proceeded to win the 2004 MVP award. Back then, the O's definitely needed him more than he needed the O's.

But it's hard to say what to do if you're in the O's position. You don't want to bid against yourself, and the O's offer in 2003 seemed to be fair. It's hard to know about their current offer without knowing what it is. $2 million seems low, but if it's a $3 million base with incentives that could take it to $5, then it seems like the O's are in the same position as in 2003 - a fair offer on the table to a guy who doesn't really want to come here. The difference, in my opinion, is that Vlad was worth overpaying in 2003.