Simon waived?

[weams]

Fred Manfra stated on Saturday that the expectation is that Simon will be claimed and if not he will ask to become a free agent. He is done as an Oriole.

[clapdiddy]

Fred Manfra stated on Saturday that the expectation is that Simon will be claimed and if not he will ask to become a free agent. He is done as an Oriole.

I truly do not understand this. Was there something else that caused this to happen, or is there another move coming?

[RVAbird]

Sure. Kind of. I don't have faith, at this point, that this was the right move, and at first glance it's just one more move for which I fail to see any coherent rationale. None of these, standing alone, are terrible. It's just one sub-optimal, inefficient, decision after another.

More importantly, I'm generally pretty good at discerning an over-arching logic/strategy to how GMs behave. I can't do it here. Maybe it means that Duquette is just playing a wholly different brand of chess and that I'm simply not smart enough to follow. After interviews, a survey of his history, and a bevy of decisions to consider - and, arrogant or not (why stop now?) - I don't think so.

Maybe I'm rusty on my transaction rules (or maybe I got up for work too early today). Can you compare the merits of DFA vs. revocable waivers and explain the mistake? Or is it just that you didn't think any designation was necessary for Simon?

[El Gordo]

Maybe I'm rusty on my transaction rules (or maybe I got up for work too early today). Can you compare the merits of DFA vs. revocable waivers and explain the mistake? Or is it just that you didn't think any designation was necessary for Simon?

They have to move 4 players in order to make room on the 40 man for Paulino, and Johnson, and get down to 25. Miller is one, one of Simon, Gregg, Bell, is another, and two of Phillips, O'Day, or Neshek optioned is another. They are keeping Gregg and Bell, apparently, and likely keeping Neshek in the pen. Wada will be DL or Matusz optioned.

[Rene88]

Gregg has got to go.

[Lucky Jim]

Maybe I'm rusty on my transaction rules (or maybe I got up for work too early today). Can you compare the merits of DFA vs. revocable waivers and explain the mistake? Or is it just that you didn't think any designation was necessary for Simon?

So, let me see if I can summarize the difference between being designated for assignment vs. being placed on revocable waivers for purpose of outrighting to AAA:

DFA

- If player is claimed, the original team cannot pull it back

- The claiming team has to put the player on their 25-man roster

- If not claimed, the player remains on the original team's 40-man roster

- If not claimed, the original team has to pay the player's contractual salary even if in AAA

Revocable waivers

- If player is claimed, the original team can revoke waivers, or try to work out a trade, or just let the player go

- The claiming team only has to put the player on its 40-man roster

- If not claimed, the player comes off the original team's 40-man roster but remains in the organization

- If not claimed, the original team only has to pay the player a minor league salary (?)

Do I have this right? If so, does it make sense to DFA Eveland ($750k salary), as opposed to putting him on waivers? Did it make sense to put Simon on waivers, as opposed to DFAing him? Just trying to understand all the ramifications of doing this one way vs. the other.

Fred Manfra stated on Saturday that the expectation is that Simon will be claimed and if not he will ask to become a free agent. He is done as an Oriole.

I truly do not understand this. Was there something else that caused this to happen, or is there another move coming?

I just don't know, RVA. Is there an explanation that points to this being the correct move? Why not DFA him?

Perhaps DD thinks that the 40-man rosters are packed tight, and so he can be slipped through. If so, it frees a spot on the 40-man, obviously. But...

As I implied earlier, in the post you quoted, me not seeing a good rationale for doing this doesn't mean there isn't one. I just don't have confidence that there is.

[RVAbird]

I just don't know, RVA. Is there an explanation that points to this being the correct move? Why not DFA him?

Perhaps DD thinks that the 40-man rosters are packed tight, and so he can be slipped through. If so, it frees a spot on the 40-man, obviously. But...

As I implied earlier, in the post you quoted, me not seeing a good rationale for doing this doesn't mean there isn't one. I just don't have confidence that there is.

I'm honestly just trying to wrap my head around the whole situation. I'm a little foggy today. It seems to me that the primary differences between DFA and revocable waivers are that 1) DFA candidates who are claimed cannot be pulled back, whereas waived players can be, and 2) DFA'd players must stick on a team's 25 man roster whereas waived players must only stick on a 40 man. So, to me, it seems waiving Simon makes him more likely to be claimed, but less likely to be lost for nothing. If a team claims him, Duquette will try to get something in return or revoke the waiver.

But, if what Weams said is true, it will be a shame to see Simon go unclaimed and then leave via FA.

[El Gordo]

I just don't know, RVA. Is there an explanation that points to this being the correct move? Why not DFA him?

Perhaps DD thinks that the 40-man rosters are packed tight, and so he can be slipped through. If so, it frees a spot on the 40-man, obviously. But...

As I implied earlier, in the post you quoted, me not seeing a good rationale for doing this doesn't mean there isn't one. I just don't have confidence that there is.

The only thing I can see is that if he is DFA, he will very likely be claimed and gone. If waived we have an option to tade him, or pull him back. The chances of him making it through either, is slim and none. Things are still fluid with the 40 man, so it's possible Simon could be DL'd or someone else like Wada, or Lindstrom, could. I think waiving Simon gives them time to keep their options open.

[RVAbird]

The only thing I can see is that if he is DFA, he will very likely be claimed and gone. If waived we have an option to tade him, or pull him back. The chances of him making it through either, is slim and none. Things are still fluid with the 40 man, so it's possible Simon could be DL'd or someone else like Wada, or Lindstrom, could. I think waiving Simon gives them time to keep their options open.

Right, it seems like waiving Simon just gives the club more options. I don't think they'll let him leave for nothing, which they would have to do in a DFA situation.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Maybe I'm rusty on my transaction rules (or maybe I got up for work too early today). Can you compare the merits of DFA vs. revocable waivers and explain the mistake? Or is it just that you didn't think any designation was necessary for Simon?

A DFA would allow you some time to make a trade with any team before having to expose the player to waivers. An outright waiver locks you into trying to make a deal with the team that selects him (assuming we're talking about a revocable waiver). I'm not sure you can run a player through revocable waivers after he's been DFA'd. I also thought there were certain times of the year when you can do revocable waivers, but I may be wrong on that.

I like Simon, but it's not a big loss here. I was thinking his live arm and flexibility might have presented some value.

[Lucky Jim]

Right, it seems like waiving Simon just gives the club more options. I don't think they'll let him leave for nothing, which they would have to do in a DFA situation.

Right. I sort-of agree. Maybe it's just a trial balloon? That would be the only explanation that I would accept, which isn't to say that (i) I think it's a particularly worthy attempt; or (ii) that what happens next doesn't wholly determine the quality of the move.

[Lucky Jim]

It seems pretty simple to me. They realize that he'd get claimed if DFA'ed because some team would find room on their 25 man roster. If they waive him, the claiming team only has to find room on the 40 man roster which increases his value to the claiming team. We're hoping to trade him for something more valuable than a bag of balls. If that doesn't happen, they'll revoke the waivers and DFA him.

They did the opposite approach with Eveland because they're hoping he'll make it through and they'd like him as depth in AAA. They know Simon won't make it through so try it the way that could yield value first.

My 2 cents...

Right. This is a more clear version of what I was trying to say. I'll quit complaining and see what happens.

[weams]

I just don't know, RVA. Is there an explanation that points to this being the correct move? Why not DFA him?

Perhaps DD thinks that the 40-man rosters are packed tight, and so he can be slipped through. If so, it frees a spot on the 40-man, obviously. But...

As I implied earlier, in the post you quoted, me not seeing a good rationale for doing this doesn't mean there isn't one. I just don't have confidence that there is.

I am of the opinion that the Orioles no longer want him and would like to be free of his salary.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It seems pretty simple to me. They realize that he'd get claimed if DFA'ed because some team would find room on their 25 man roster. If they waive him, the claiming team only has to find room on the 40 man roster which increases his value to the claiming team. We're hoping to trade him for something more valuable than a bag of balls. If that doesn't happen, they'll revoke the waivers and DFA him.

They did the opposite approach with Eveland because they're hoping he'll make it through and they'd like him as depth in AAA. They know Simon won't make it through so try it the way that could yield value first.

My 2 cents...

You're probably right. The DFA process should allow you time to make a deal with any team before exposing the player through waivers though. Unlike a revocable waiver, I'm not sure you can reverse the DFA process once it's in place.

[weams]

Since Eveland has no track record as a situational lefty, I wonder whether Simon is out there to make sure Eveland gets through. Anyone who would have had room for Dana would definitely prefer Alfredo. Just conspiracy theory on my part. They can't be looking at them for a starting spot at this point.