Redsox lose cool

[ledzepp8]

He wasn't set...but he doesn't have to be with nobody on base. He was on the rubber, though, which means he can start pitching whenever he feels like. It's not like he put his foot on the rubber, and then threw the ball. That would be illegal.

He looked like he was in a set position to me. Now he didn't come set from the stretch and didn't come from the windup...but again like you said he doesn't have to.

Of course I could obviously be mistaken...haha...its happened before.

[ledzepp8]

In your original statement on the subject, you said that it was bush league crap, trickeration, deception, and that it wasn't playing baseball. That sounds like pretty strong implications that in your mind, Strop did something wrong.

How dare you sir? I'm clearly being dense by asking for clarification, rather than parroting?

[crissfan172]

He looked like he was in a set position to me. Now he didn't come set from the stretch and didn't come from the windup...but again like you said he doesn't have to.

Of course I could obviously be mistaken...haha...its happened before.

I think the confusing part is that the "set position" is when his foot is on the rubber, and he's looking to the catcher for signs. When they come up it's called "coming set", which just makes this whole thing confusing since when you come set, you're not going into the set position. The whole thing's a headache...well at least for me.

[Sanfran327]

No one is being dense. From your very first post in the thread I have asked to elaborate and clarify your argument. You've simply repeated what you already said. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just trying to understand what you think was deceptive, trickeration, quick pitch, bush league, frustrating, etc about what Strop did?

In your original statement on the subject, you said that it was bush league crap, trickeration, deception, and that it wasn't playing baseball. That sounds like pretty strong implications that in your mind, Strop did something wrong.

If you read my post, what I said was that "As a pro ball player, I'd think that's bush league crap." Doesn't mean it's wrong, just that it would certainly get under my skin, and I'd be pissed off. As an O's fan, I could care less what the Sox players or coaches think, because Strop didn't break any rules. The whole point of pitching is to try and deceive the hitter, but I think the traditional method is to mix up and command your pitches, not to throw a pitch before a hitter is set. There are norms in baseball, as we all know from watching hundreds of games and thousands of at bats over the years. Strop took advantage of a situation, which is a heads-up play, but in my opinion, it was also a minor violation of an unwritten rule or norm. Perhaps that's where we disagree.

[TonySoprano]

Ian Browne ‏@IanMBrowne

Pedro Strop did not deny that he quick-pitched Gonzalez. He just said the umpires never enforce it, so he'll keep doing it.

Ian Browne ‏@IanMBrowne

Strop probably wishes he hadn't said this."I haven’t got told that it’s illegal. So if it’s been working I’m going to keep doing it. "

[Sanfran327]

Ian Browne ‏@IanMBrowne

Pedro Strop did not deny that he quick-pitched Gonzalez. He just said the umpires never enforce it, so he'll keep doing it.

Ian Browne ‏@IanMBrowne

Strop probably wishes he hadn't said this."I haven’t got told that it’s illegal. So if it’s been working I’m going to keep doing it. "

So, clearly Strop's intention was to push the envelope regarding the rulebook here. Mission accomplished.

[Miller192]

If you read my post, what I said was that "As a pro ball player, I'd think that's bush league crap." Doesn't mean it's wrong, just that it would certainly get under my skin, and I'd be pissed off. As an O's fan, I could care less what the Sox players or coaches think, because Strop didn't break any rules. The whole point of pitching is to try and deceive the hitter, but I think the traditional method is to mix up and command your pitches, not to throw a pitch before a hitter is set. There are norms in baseball, as we all know from watching hundreds of games and thousands of at bats over the years. Strop took advantage of a situation, which is a heads-up play, but in my opinion, it was also a minor violation of an unwritten rule or norm. Perhaps that's where we disagree.

How was Gonzalez not set? He was in the box and swinging the bat.

It's not an unwritten rule, it's in black and white. A pitcher cannot quick pitch to a batter if the umpire believes he's not ready.

Gonzo was ready; his timing was off. He stood in the box waiting for Strop to come to a set that he doesn't have to.

[Sanfran327]

How was Gonzalez not set? He was in the box and swinging the bat.

It's not an unwritten rule, it's in black and white. A pitcher cannot quick pitch to a batter if the umpire believes he's not ready.

Gonzo was ready; his timing was off. He stood in the box waiting for Strop to come to a set that he doesn't have to.

So, literally, my entire point has been that Gonzo was pissed at an irregular situation in the heat of competition where thungs weren't going his way and that I could understand his frustration: a point I thought I'd made pretty clearly since the beginning. Guess not. But the refusal or inability to recognize that there is another point of view here - right or wrong - is what is causing the disconnect.

[dorfmac]

So, literally, my entire point has been that Gonzo was pissed at an irregular situation in the heat of competition where thungs weren't going his way and that I could understand his frustration: a point I thought I'd made pretty clearly since the beginning. Guess not. But the refusal or inability to recognize that there is another point of view here - right or wrong - is what is causing the disconnect.

For the record, I see where you're coming from, so you're not completely alone. Kinda like when you yell "boner" during your buddy's backswing and he shanks it wide right. Technically not against the rules, but you're definitely "effing" with him. Maybe not the best example but it's an accessible one considering it's something I certainly do a lot, but I'm a jerk...

Looking forward to seeing the replay on baseball tonight as I was on a plane all game.

Also, I support anything to make the Red Sox angry.

[Why_Knott?]

I believe that this can actually be called a balk if the umpire determines that the action is to intentionally disrupt the hitter. This came up in my baseball game the other night actually and led to the same type of argument and discussion. The rulebook came out and that is how it was ruled.

So in this case, I think the call could have gone either way. With Gonzalez being set, I'd say it was the right call.

[Jurczak]

Video is here for anyone who wants to watch it: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23938459&c_id=mlb

Looks pretty legit to me. If you pause it at the one minute mark, Strop has the ball behind his leg looking in. Gonzalez has both feet in the box, looking at Strop with both hands on the bat. Strop begins to pitch. It's the first time that I've seen TTTP actually help.

[dorfmac]

Video is here for anyone who wants to watch it: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23938459&c_id=mlb

Looks pretty legit to me. If you pause it at the one minute mark, Strop has the ball behind his leg looking in. Gonzalez has both feet in the box, looking at Strop with both hands on the bat. Strop begins to pitch. It's the first time that I've seen TTTP actually help.

Even the Sox announcers said they saw nothing wrong with it. When the guys who are paid to be homers for you dont acknowledge anything wrong, there probably wasnt anything wrong!

[Enjoy Terror]

That is definitely one of the quickest pitches I've seen. It was of course done to deceive the batter as Strop admitted, but I don't know of the illegality of it.

[Orioles4Life21]

Video is here for anyone who wants to watch it: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23938459&c_id=mlb

Looks pretty legit to me. If you pause it at the one minute mark, Strop has the ball behind his leg looking in. Gonzalez has both feet in the box, looking at Strop with both hands on the bat. Strop begins to pitch. It's the first time that I've seen TTTP actually help.

I'm in love with the girl at :50

[CA-ORIOLE]

Here are the official rules:

8.01. Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time.

Strop was in the set position. For the pitch in question he brought both hands together (briefly) as required, but did not stop.

Rule 8.01(b) Comment: With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position. If, however, in the umpire's judgment, a pitcher delivers the ball in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard, this delivery shall be deemed a quick pitch, for which the penalty is a ball. See Rule 8.05(e) Comment.

The important part here is see rule 8.05(e) comment below.

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

(e) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch;

Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batter's box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.

The issue with deception clearly relates to the batter being set or not. There is no issue deceiving the batter by changing up (or speeding up) the delivery.