Redsox lose cool

[Ampontan]

Even the Sox announcers said they saw nothing wrong with it. When the guys who are paid to be homers for you dont acknowledge anything wrong, there probably wasnt anything wrong!

Exactly. They didn't even know what the problem was. I honestly saw no problem at all with what Strop did.

I think it's Bosox frustration over a poor season and being beaten regularly by a team their fan base expects them to beat.

[byrdz]

[Tx Oriole]

As an O's fan, I'll take an out any way I can get it. But as a pro ball player, I'd think that's bush league crap. I can see why he's uppset... it's trickeration and deception, not playing baseball.

Is trickeration a word? If Gonzalez was in the box and set there is no trickeration or trickery done to him. He is jsut a whiny baby like all redsox players. It is like how dare you do that to me. I am Mr. Gonzalez. Damn bull crap. It is the big leagues. if he doenst lke that then let the jack ass retire and go knit sweeters. Damn jerk. Sorry

[Va Beach O's fan]

Not every pitcher has to take 10 minutes to throw a ball like a Red Sox or Yankees pitcher.

Bingo. Aceves does the same crap all the time. But hey, no one whines like the Red Sox. They make the Yankees seem tolerable. Pathetic bunch of overpaid, overrated losers!

[jklum46]

I see no difference between what Strop did, and what a pitcher in the stretch does when using a slide step. Or for that matter when Chen sometimes pauses longer or shorter with his windup. It's all meant to be a timing thing to disrupt the timing of the hitter and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. If you check out the photo of Strop before throwing that pitch Gonzalez is in the box in his stance and looking at Strop. Looks pretty ready to me. He just got caught off guard because it was a different delivery than what Strop normally uses.

I was actually a little disappointed because Gonzalez is one of the few Red Sox players I actually had some respect for. The guy puts up serious numbers and is a great fielder, and is generally not outspoken and just goes about his business. I guess the frustration is boiling over a bit for them now.

[The Wedge]

I think someone should show Adrian "I was just standing there, not in my stance" Gonzalez this picture and tell him maybe he should shut his cavernous pie hole. Unless of course he was just looking for an excuse to hit the showers, in which case, go ahead, flap your gums all you want.

[DrungoHazewood]

As an O's fan, I'll take an out any way I can get it. But as a pro ball player, I'd think that's bush league crap. I can see why he's uppset... it's trickeration and deception, not playing baseball.

Sorry, but trickeration and deception IS playing baseball. Unless you have a 100 mph fastball, that pretty much defines pitching.

This reminded me somewhat of the Mayweather/Ortiz fight a while back when Mayweather KO'd Ortiz with the legal combo cheapshot after the Ortiz headbutt. Allowed by the letter of the law in the sport, but the general consensus was that it was a cheapshot, right?

Like I said, Gonzo and the Sox can go suck a lemon because they have not grounds to be upset other than that it's kind of a BS move. I agree with you guys and I agree with Palmer, but I can understand the frustration at the same time.

If it's not explicitly stated in the rules, it's fair game.

So, clearly Strop's intention was to push the envelope regarding the rulebook here. Mission accomplished.

Absolutely. Great. Part of the job of a good player/team/manager is to find the loopholes in the rules and exploit them. Figure out ways to beat the opponent, and let them try to react. Moaning and whining about stuff like this reminds me of British generals being pissed off that the Americans wouldn't line up in a field and let themselves get mowed down by a superior force like the unwritten rules of war dictated.

Here are the official rules:

Strop was in the set position. For the pitch in question he brought both hands together (briefly) as required, but did not stop.

The important part here is see rule 8.05(e) comment below.

The issue with deception clearly relates to the batter being set or not. There is no issue deceiving the batter by changing up (or speeding up) the delivery.

Thank you. Strop was 100% right. I just hope that the rules committee doesn't try to fix or clarify something that isn't broken in the offseason. Too often innovation is destroyed by tradition.

[ledzepp8]

If you read my post, what I said was that "As a pro ball player, I'd think that's bush league crap." Doesn't mean it's wrong, just that it would certainly get under my skin, and I'd be pissed off. As an O's fan, I could care less what the Sox players or coaches think, because Strop didn't break any rules. The whole point of pitching is to try and deceive the hitter, but I think the traditional method is to mix up and command your pitches, not to throw a pitch before a hitter is set. There are norms in baseball, as we all know from watching hundreds of games and thousands of at bats over the years. Strop took advantage of a situation, which is a heads-up play, but in my opinion, it was also a minor violation of an unwritten rule or norm. Perhaps that's where we disagree.

I understand you're position. I'm asking you to clarify why you hold that position, other than to just repeat your position. What do you feel that Strop did that was bush league (if you were an opposing player)? How did he pitch before the batter was set, if the batter was in the box? What do you feel he did that was sneaky or deceptive (if you were an opposing player)?

[Sanfran327]

I understand you're position. I'm asking you to clarify why you hold that position, other than to just repeat your position. What do you feel that Strop did that was bush league (if you were an opposing player)? How did he pitch before the batter was set, if the batter was in the box? What do you feel he did that was sneaky or deceptive (if you were an opposing player)?

If you keep asking the same question, I'm going to keep giving you the same answer. I think this conversation is about over for me.

CLEARLY, I felt that the quick pitch was bush league in the eyes of an opponent. I don't know how that never got through to you. You think Gonzo was set because you're an O's fan and you're satisfied with the outcome, but he claims he wasn't, and even if he's lying, obviously, it's just so he can (try to - unsuccessfully) save face, and I get it. That's pretty much it.

Like I said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[DrungoHazewood]

I understand you're position. I'm asking you to clarify why you hold that position, other than to just repeat your position. What do you feel that Strop did that was bush league (if you were an opposing player)? How did he pitch before the batter was set, if the batter was in the box? What do you feel he did that was sneaky or deceptive (if you were an opposing player)?

You're forgetting the unwritten rule that former MVP candidates on high-ratings teams need to be treated with respect and deference, and pitchers from lesser markets need to be sure they're good and ready before pitching.

[yeoledugger]

AGon has not forgotten the insult to his integrity back in the spring when Chris Davis struck him out with a split-finger fastball instead of grooving AGon with a batting practice fastball which Davis was supposed to throw, per AGon's rules. You do not insult the entitled AGon twice in one season without being reprimanded.

God, I love baseball.

[Sanfran327]

You're forgetting the unwritten rule that former MVP candidates on high-ratings teams need to be treated with respect and deference, and pitchers from lesser markets need to be sure they're good and ready before pitching.

I never said that, ever. You're a know-it-all that likes and push buttons because you aren't capable of even acknowledging another opinion or point of view.

[ledzepp8]

If you keep asking the same question, I'm going to keep giving you the same answer. I think this conversation is about over for me.

CLEARLY, I felt that the quick pitch was bush league in the eyes of an opponent. I don't know how that never got through to you. You think Gonzo was set because you're an O's fan and you're satisfied with the outcome, but he claims he wasn't, and even if he's lying, obviously, it's just so he can (try to - unsuccessfully) save face, and I get it. That's pretty much it.

Like I said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I've clarified my position of why I think there was nothing wrong with what Strop did. I advised that Strop had come set, Gonzalez was in the box in his set position, and that Strop had a minimal leg kick but that he did nothing illegal.

I've asked you to clarify why you feel the way you do (as you're the one throwing out strong accusatory adjectives in regards to the situation). You're argument has basically boiled down "I think it was bush league and deceptive because it was bush league and deceptive", which is akin to "Because I said so".

And no I don't think Gonzalez was set because I'm an O's fan. I think he was set because I have eye and can look a picture.

[ledzepp8]

I never said that, ever. You're a know-it-all that likes and push buttons because you aren't capable of even acknowledging another opinion or point of view.

Stop with the martyr act. Everyone is acknowledging your opinion and no one has said you can't have it. I've simply asked you what do you feel happened that makes you have that opinion. If the sky is blue and you tell me that it's green, then I'll ask you why you think it's green. You don't just repeat because it's green.

[Pickles]

It's funny on that CBS link to the power rankings provided they show a Strop highlight where he does the same exact thing. I think it was against the Royals- maybe not. Whoever it was, the hitter didn't about it. These Red Sox are extraordinarily entitled, demonstrative little cry babies. I'm glad that whole organization is coming apart at the seams.